Author Topic: VOX Discipline  (Read 2253 times)

Offline TheRapier

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VOX Discipline
« on: June 16, 2010, 06:42:57 PM »
Just some thoughts about oft abused system. This is a subject that some folks seem to understand and others show no awareness of. I've seen people use Range as a chat channel and while it can be used that way, its not optimal.

Keep in mind that Range is used by everyone in the area and because of way the internet works, there is a delay between the time you transmit and your intended recipient gets the message.

This means that if it gets clogged with extraneous chat about what you did 4 weeks ago on Sunday, however interesting that might be to you and who you are talking to, someone else may not get a warning of the bandit dropping on their tail in time to do anything about it. If you want to chat with someone, tune to a different channel, that's why there are 999 of them. Don't make the rest of the folks around you have to go through a conversation that is not of interest or use to them.

If you are giving someone a check and not using the check six key, say who is the recipient is. Yelling break without that means that nearly every friendly in your area either will a) break reflexively b) have to look around for a possible threat.

If you can tell, tell them where it is in reference to them. Makes it easier to find the threat.

When calling in a bogie, just saying "High bogie" or "High Badguy" isn't super helpful, Lots of people will get the message who can't even see it because its not in con range yet. Give a location that everyone can figure out, "High 109, north of the field."

I know it sounds very professional and pilot like to say, "5 bogies, 12 o'clock high." but this doesn't give any info to someone who is not flying with you and knows which direction you are facing. It is more helpful to give a reference to a common point everyone knows. For instance if you are escorting a group of bombers say, "7 51s 5 o'clock to the bombers." Where you can GIVE ALTITUDE. Other than location this is the most important piece of info.

If you are going to help someone say who you are going to help and your distance out. They want to know how soon they can expect help. If the badguy turns off, call it, they may not have seen it yet.

If you are calling you a bomber group or a cv, or typing it on country channel, give composition, keypad location, direction and alt. This makes the information actionable and will help your country to mobilize.  In contrast a message that says, "Gazillions of bad guys coming to a109." is information but not super useful.

Make your transmissions short and information dense. Be aware of what is going on. While you and others in your immediate area may not be threatened other folks could be very busy. If you are in a GV, be aware that fighters and bombers are using the same channel. Going on for 10 minutes about how its unfair your bullets are richocheting off your target, may be momentarily satisfying but its not really helping anything. You might need some of these folks help and they will be more inclined if you look like you know what you are doing.

All of this goes double if you are in a scenario :)
--)-Rapier--
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Offline Ghosth

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2010, 06:24:54 AM »
Well your preaching the right sermon, question is if anyone is listening that should be.

Good post!  <S>

Offline Dawger

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2010, 07:58:22 AM »
Great topic. One that is near and dear to my heart.

I was taught the following:

Always identify who you are talking to. Start with the call sign.

Provide any direction before you provide information. If you need to tell me (dawger) to break left the proper form is:

Dawger, Break Left, 190

Who, Do, Why....that is the correct format.

If you aren't going to suggest a course of action give information the guy can use.

Clock positions should be referenced to the guy you are talking to, not yourself. If everyone is in the same reasonably tight formation using the apparent clock from yourself will work, otherwise give a heading or cardinal compass point if you cannot tell the clock position of the friendly you are trying to help.

Below  are links to the training pages we used in my squadron when we were quite active in large operations like events. We still use most of what is described but on a much smaller scale.

CAUTION: The Following HYPERLINKS contains information derogatory of highly popular radio technique in AH. Use at your OWN RISK. The author doesn't really care if you don't appreciate his opinion

Communication Standard

Glossary of Communication Terms

Offline Mongoose

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2010, 08:47:20 PM »
Dawger, the hyperlinks gave some very good information, thanks.  There is only one small change I would make.  I would rather get a "six" call with no information, than no six call at all.  I agree, though, that those few added words can make a big difference.  I will try to incorporate these in my radio calls.   :airplane:
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Offline Dawger

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 10:10:54 PM »
Dawger, the hyperlinks gave some very good information, thanks.  There is only one small change I would make.  I would rather get a "six" call with no information, than no six call at all.  I agree, though, that those few added words can make a big difference.  I will try to incorporate these in my radio calls.   :airplane:

That is, of course, true.

My training stuff is aimed at guys flying together as a squadron using our own TS server and training regularly together. When I'm not flying with squad mates I take what I can get and the automated six call or a voice "check it" is welcome and I try to thank everyone that gives me one.

Any squad that operates together regularly can benefit from practicing good voice comms technique. It doesn't interfere with the normal banter and good times in our squad.

We have the regular continuous discussion of wine enemas, filipino priests in drag and the pressing issue of latex allergies among mexican hookers in between all that official sounding radio lingo.


Offline cactuskooler

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2010, 11:21:12 PM »
cactus
80th FS "Headhunters"

Noseart

Offline Soulyss

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2010, 12:56:55 AM »
 :lol

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I blame mir.

Offline WMLute

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2010, 01:29:03 AM »
I don't ever tell 'em which way to juke.

Prob. 'cause 99% of the time when someone tells me to "break this way" it is normally the wrong thing to do.

I leave it up to the pilot what maneuver to make.

I do tend to give out vox 6 calls with pilot name, nme plane type, nme plane location and keep it short and sweet.

i.e.

"(pilot name) high 109 long six"

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Offline Dawger

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2010, 06:12:46 AM »
I don't ever tell 'em which way to juke.

Prob. 'cause 99% of the time when someone tells me to "break this way" it is normally the wrong thing to do.

I leave it up to the pilot what maneuver to make.

I do tend to give out vox 6 calls with pilot name, nme plane type, nme plane location and keep it short and sweet.

i.e.

"(pilot name) high 109 long six"



The direction is easy to figure out if you are close enough to the friendly. It is the same decision process you make in the cockpit.

You generally break towards the bandit to complicate his guns solution as rapidly and effectively as possible.

If you have a bandit at 5 o'clock, you break right. If you have a bandit at 7 o'clock you break left. The same information can be passed on to a friend. If the bandit is dead six, tell him to break in a direction that helps you help him. If the bandit is dead six to the friendly.and you are 7 o'clock to the friendly you want the friend to break right to give you the bandits tail.

Offline ImADot

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2010, 07:07:41 AM »
The direction is easy to figure out if you are close enough to the friendly. It is the same decision process you make in the cockpit.

You generally break towards the bandit to complicate his guns solution as rapidly and effectively as possible.

If you have a bandit at 5 o'clock, you break right. If you have a bandit at 7 o'clock you break left. The same information can be passed on to a friend. If the bandit is dead six, tell him to break in a direction that helps you help him. If the bandit is dead six to the friendly.and you are 7 o'clock to the friendly you want the friend to break right to give you the bandits tail.

I think the point of Lute's comment was the average schmuck flying around probably doesn't have a clue.  Unless I know the person and trust his ability and judgement, the last thing I'll do is blindly break one way or another just because he said so.  Especially true if I get a "check 6" call for the only bandit in the area and the schmuck giving that check can't tell that the bandit is on my 12 and about to be vaporized.

Back to the main topic, I agree that better vox discipline is needed.  It shouldn't take a paragraph of verbal diarrhea to let someone know something...especialy in the thick of battle.
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Offline Ghosth

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2010, 07:12:37 AM »
I see lute's point, and for the experience player its a valid one.

By the same token, if you have a bogey on you, and someone tells you to break right, and you go left, chances are you just screwed up the guy coming to help you. If he gives you a direction, figure that going that way will improve his chances of helping.

Offline Dawger

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2010, 07:37:35 AM »
I think the point of Lute's comment was the average schmuck flying around probably doesn't have a clue.  Unless I know the person and trust his ability and judgement, the last thing I'll do is blindly break one way or another just because he said so.  Especially true if I get a "check 6" call for the only bandit in the area and the schmuck giving that check can't tell that the bandit is on my 12 and about to be vaporized.

Back to the main topic, I agree that better vox discipline is needed.  It shouldn't take a paragraph of verbal diarrhea to let someone know something...especialy in the thick of battle.

Two points

1. Lute was referring to the sender not the receiver. He stated he doesn't give a direction out of concern for being in error. It is always the choice of the receiver to act upon the information given. If you send someone a specific break call i.e. "break right" the recipient has three choices. Break Right, Break some other direction or ignore it. That doesn't mean you can't offer the information if you are reasonably certain of the situation.

2. A break in the wrong direction is always better than no break at all.

Like I always tell my guys in training, I will never criticize someone's break call even if they call break on a bandit I have squarely in my gunsights. Its my choice whether or not I follow the break call and ultimately my responsibility for my own virtual life.

Conversely, not calling break out of fear of getting it wrong is a cardinal sin in my book.

Offline Obie303

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2010, 12:31:27 PM »
I don't ever tell 'em which way to juke.

Prob. 'cause 99% of the time when someone tells me to "break this way" it is normally the wrong thing to do.

I leave it up to the pilot what maneuver to make.

I do tend to give out vox 6 calls with pilot name, nme plane type, nme plane location and keep it short and sweet.

i.e.

"(pilot name) high 109 long six"



I've actually been on the receiving end of this scenario. 

Flying with a few squaddies over vox and somebody yells out "Break right!"  All of a sudden I see all of the squaddies on vox break right. :D
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Offline Spikes

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2010, 01:19:42 PM »
I see lute's point, and for the experience player its a valid one.

By the same token, if you have a bogey on you, and someone tells you to break right, and you go left, chances are you just screwed up the guy coming to help you. If he gives you a direction, figure that going that way will improve his chances of helping.

I get this too much. Especially if I've got too much E, and I tell a guy to keep him straight (he's not a threat to the friendly YET, and I'm closing fast), and as soon as I get within D600 (the enemy is still a good distance from the friendly) the friendly breaks hard left or right and leaves me with no choice but to pull up and reset.

I like to give as much info as possible, like Lute said, name, plane, how far back he is. If I can't do that even name and plane sometimes suffice.
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Offline bj229r

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Re: VOX Discipline
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2010, 07:43:27 PM »
I usually say something like "If you break left...I can make MANY bullets whiz past him"
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