Author Topic: Rockets  (Read 2318 times)

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Rockets
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2010, 01:38:42 PM »
Yes Ack-Ack. I hit the wrong button;



I'm sure that's it, LOL.

ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23930
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: Rockets
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2010, 01:41:16 PM »
you do know that 1kg is about 1.1lbs, right  :noid? A 50kg bomb is a 100lb bomb.

You know that only about 50% of a HE bomb is actually explosive filling? So a generic 100kg HE bomb does have ~100lbs explosives.
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

In November 2025, Lusche will return for a 20th anniversary tour. Get your tickets now!

Offline Nemisis

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4086
      • Fightin 49'ers
Re: Rockets
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2010, 02:51:33 PM »
So a 4000lb bomb has 2000lbs or so of scrap iron in it? That doesn't seem right.


And Ack-Ack, I know my convertions pretty well, I'm not gona screw up the kg to lbs one. I learned that one in 6Th grade, and its been reinforced up until highscool geometry (last 2 trimesters of the just finished year) through story problems.
All man needs to be happy is a home, his wife, and a place in the world

Col. 49Nem, Armor commander of the 49th

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23930
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: Rockets
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2010, 03:03:22 PM »
So a 4000lb bomb has 2000lbs or so of scrap iron in it? That doesn't seem right.


It doesn't matter what seems to be right... just matters how it is. ;)

Why don't you read a bit up? It's so easy with da internetz to get a few numbers in very short time :)


And they are not filled with "scrap iron". It's the bomb case. Compare the density of steel to the density of explosives and you will see why the casing can quickly make up 50% of total mass.

For example a German 500kg SC-500 (the one we have in game). It's a general purpose bomb quite comparable to it's allied counterparts. Depending on version, it weighed 480 to 520kg and was filled with 250 to 260kg Fp 02; Fp 60/40; Fp 50/50; Amatol 39 or 40 or 41, Ammonal D,J or (in case of naval targets only) DJI Trialen

A SD-500 (fragmentation bomb) had even 75-180kg explosive filling only.

A SC-1800 (our big Stuka cookie) carried 1000-1100kg of explosives (It's armor piercing variant only 220kg)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 03:05:47 PM by Lusche »
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

In November 2025, Lusche will return for a 20th anniversary tour. Get your tickets now!

Offline whipster22

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 458
Re: Rockets
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2010, 04:58:50 PM »
It doesn't matter what seems to be right... just matters how it is. ;)

Why don't you read a bit up? It's so easy with da internetz to get a few numbers in very short time :)


And they are not filled with "scrap iron". It's the bomb case. Compare the density of steel to the density of explosives and you will see why the casing can quickly make up 50% of total mass.

For example a German 500kg SC-500 (the one we have in game). It's a general purpose bomb quite comparable to it's allied counterparts. Depending on version, it weighed 480 to 520kg and was filled with 250 to 260kg Fp 02; Fp 60/40; Fp 50/50; Amatol 39 or 40 or 41, Ammonal D,J or (in case of naval targets only) DJI Trialen

A SD-500 (fragmentation bomb) had even 75-180kg explosive filling only.

A SC-1800 (our big Stuka cookie) carried 1000-1100kg of explosives (It's armor piercing variant only 220kg)



Can you put that in a pie chart?
just dewbing up the bbs
baby seal

Offline SmokinLoon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6168
Re: Rockets
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2010, 05:31:40 PM »
Back to the original question: 

There is loads of data, some of it current some not, but it will give you a starting point, at the AH Trainers website.  Just follow the link to the "projectile strength analysis".

FWIW, the US uses the 4.5inand 5in rockets, and the UK uses the 3.5in rocket for air to ground use.  The US 5in is the most powerful at 156 pts of damage, next is the British 3.5in at 140pts of damage, and a distant 3rd is the US 4.5in rocket at 93 points of damage.  All the sources I've read lend all three to being "general purpose" rockets to be used in either HE or AP roles (exactly as they were used in the real deal).  Also, the 4.5in rocket is basically the "bazooka" rocket, hence the tubes.  It is also the rocket used on the M4A3 75mm "Calliope" tank as well.  On aircraft, remember those tubes cause drag and add weight. 

In AH, an OBJ (i.e. "object") such as a ammo bunker, fuel depot, radar, barracks, or house takes a total amount of 312pts of damage to destroy.  Some of the lack of actual damage by poundage (for lack of batter terms) is made up from the impact of the projectile.  Hence, the ability to destroy one of the a OBJ mentioned with a direct hit from a single 250lb bomb.

btw... here an added tid-bit for those who may want to know:

Tank Main Gun Statistics for Aces High

Country   Tank   Caliber/Gun   Reload Time   HE Dmg (in lbs)

Britain   Firefly   76mm Q.F. 17lb      7.2 sec      146.3
Germany   Pzr IV   75mm KwK40 L/48           5.4 sec      156
Germany   Tiger    I   88mm KwK36 L/46   6.3 sec      234.3
Soviets   T34/76   76mm F-34              8.2 sec      156.2
Soviets   T34/85   85mm ZiS-S-53      6.8 sec      231.8
US      M4A3    M3                 3.6 sec      173.8
US      M4A3 (W)   76mm M1A1              3.6 sec      103
US       LVT-4   75mm M2         3.6 sec      154.5
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline SmokinLoon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6168
Re: Rockets
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2010, 05:33:23 PM »
*DOH!  

Double post.  Sorry.

The info above was taken from the AH Trainers website, 'cept for the T34/85 and both M4A3's.  Those 3 tanks were tested by me for HE damage.

Notice which tank is #3 in HE damage, and which is the worst.   :)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 05:47:32 PM by SmokinLoon »
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Nemisis

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4086
      • Fightin 49'ers
Re: Rockets
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2010, 09:18:18 PM »
I can see that, depending on how thick the casing is.

Anyone know how thick it actually is? It wouldn't have to be very thick concidiring its not intended to shot out of a tank's main gun at 1120m/s, would it?


SmokinLoon, how did you find the damage down to a tenth of a pound (M3 tank gun)?
All man needs to be happy is a home, his wife, and a place in the world

Col. 49Nem, Armor commander of the 49th

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23930
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: Rockets
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2010, 09:21:13 PM »
Anyone know how thick it actually is? It wouldn't have to be very thick concidiring its not intended to shot out of a tank's main gun at 1120m/s, would it?

A grade III SC-500 has a wall thickness from 0.3 to 3.2 inch in the nose.


Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

In November 2025, Lusche will return for a 20th anniversary tour. Get your tickets now!

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23930
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: Rockets
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2010, 09:24:04 PM »
SmokinLoon, how did you find the damage down to a tenth of a pound (M3 tank gun)?

Shoot an object with known hardness (see object settings in offline mode).

Divide that value by number of rounds needed to kill it.
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

In November 2025, Lusche will return for a 20th anniversary tour. Get your tickets now!

Offline Nemisis

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4086
      • Fightin 49'ers
Re: Rockets
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2010, 09:36:14 PM »
oh.... duh  :lol.


And thanks for the measurments.
All man needs to be happy is a home, his wife, and a place in the world

Col. 49Nem, Armor commander of the 49th

Offline SmokinLoon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6168
Re: Rockets
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2010, 10:00:20 PM »
I can see that, depending on how thick the casing is.

Anyone know how thick it actually is? It wouldn't have to be very thick concidiring its not intended to shot out of a tank's main gun at 1120m/s, would it?


SmokinLoon, how did you find the damage down to a tenth of a pound (M3 tank gun)?

Looshey said correctly.  I used the hanger since it was a large enough and "deep" enough target to soak up enough damage to have a legit scale to compare multiple weapons platforms.  The same test could be performed on the shore battery as well since it too is a "deep" target.  I've found some discrepancies that are listed on the "Projectile Strength Analysis" posted on the AH Trainer's website, but mostly minuscule and not worth mentioning.  I'd love to contribute the info I have to share that isa currently not posted, but Im not quite sure who to approach or even if they're taking new information to share with the public.

A single M4A3 75mm with a full load of HE and the Calliope rockets mounted can take down an entire town.  With the fast reload time, generous damage and splash area, and plenty of ammo it is not to be over-looked.  Obviously, its bane is the lackluster AP round.  You'd better have a buddy in a Firefly or M4A3W 76mm close by.   :) 
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Nemisis

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4086
      • Fightin 49'ers
Re: Rockets
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2010, 03:26:12 AM »
I've found that out the hard way. Oddly, U.S. War Department doctrine regarding the division of duties works (just so long as your buddy is competent), dispite the fact that expierence showed that it was a horrible idea.
All man needs to be happy is a home, his wife, and a place in the world

Col. 49Nem, Armor commander of the 49th

Offline morfiend

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10470
Re: Rockets
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2010, 12:06:12 AM »
Looshey said correctly.  I used the hanger since it was a large enough and "deep" enough target to soak up enough damage to have a legit scale to compare multiple weapons platforms.  The same test could be performed on the shore battery as well since it too is a "deep" target.  I've found some discrepancies that are listed on the "Projectile Strength Analysis" posted on the AH Trainer's website, but mostly minuscule and not worth mentioning.  I'd love to contribute the info I have to share that isa currently not posted, but Im not quite sure who to approach or even if they're taking new information to share with the public.

A single M4A3 75mm with a full load of HE and the Calliope rockets mounted can take down an entire town.  With the fast reload time, generous damage and splash area, and plenty of ammo it is not to be over-looked.  Obviously, its bane is the lackluster AP round.  You'd better have a buddy in a Firefly or M4A3W 76mm close by.   :) 


 That might make a great entrie into the AHII wiki.Smokin,go to the wiki page and the imformation on posting should be there for you!

   :salute

Offline Airwolf

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 124
Re: Rockets
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2010, 12:43:25 PM »
Shoot an object with known hardness (see object settings in offline mode).

Divide that value by number of rounds needed to kill it.
Wow...Some people have way too much time on their hands.... ;)