New announcement: Radar Settings

[RufusLeaking]

You think you know me and those that you and your ilk refer to as "furballers" and you think that all we like is pure aerial combat.

I don’t know you beyond what you post.  I occasionally ilk-run, sure, but I am not sure who I represent other than myself.

… I can speak with some amount of authority being that I fly with a squad that would probably be one of the most likely to fall in your stereotypical category.  While we do enjoy the aerial combat aspect of the game the most,  we enjoy it all and can be found participating in all of it.

No argument from me on this point.   In game, I have never had any problems with you all, except the too frequent trips to the tower.

We just hate seeing the game damaged by a style of game play that does not promote competition but rather deprives the game of players by focusing them into large groups who effectively become one large player that does not fight or compete. 

I disagree.  Capturing bases is competition.  NOEs may have become an abused exploit, but it was (and is) within the framework of the game.

Anyone who expresses anything other than “win the fitez” is beat down by a very vocal minority on these boards.

Anyway, spin that broken record and continue to lump ppl into big all-encompassing categories so you can easily dismiss their observations and opinions. 

Please forgive me for lumping people into an “ilk.”  I am not dismissing your opinions.  In fact, I am enjoying the responses.  I sincerely intend to remain respectful as I go forward in my posting, but I slip from time to time.

For the young people out there, think of a “broken record” as a scratched CD or a corrupted file.

[1Boner]

Ack-Ack,

Bases are undefended also because they are leaved so by players who
like other style of combat more.

 

Correct!

I cannot count the times I've detected NOEs and announced them on channel, only to have to defend the base alone.
I didn't mind though, always had great fun upping against them.

I would do that all day long rather than avoiding the incessant alt. monkeys looking for an easy kill

[ink]

<sub><sup>i THINK MANY ARE STEREOTYPICALLY PLACING EVERY ONE IN ONE GROUP OR OTHER, WRONGLY, SAME WAY THEY DO WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT "SPIT PILOT" OR "la PILOTS" OR hURRI... ect ect  

SUNBAT IS CORRECT
ack ack IS CORRECT
1bONER IS CORRECT
RufusLeaking  IS CORRECT,
....ect ect


AND THEY ARE ALSO ALL WRONG, BECAUSE AT ONE POINT OR OTHER  EVERY THING THEY ARE SAYING OR REFERRING TO HAS TAKEN PLACE, BUT NOT ALL "FURBALLERS" ONLY FURBALL, AND nOT ALL BOMBER PILOTS ATTACK fh TO STOP THE FURBALLING, NOT ALL "noe" MISSIONS ARE TRYING TO AVOID cOMBAT, NOT ALL "la DRIVERS" ONLY ho AND RUN...ect ect

BUT THERE ARE ALSO THOSE THAT "noe" JUST TO AVOID THE FIGHT AND BACK SLAP ABOUT HOW AWESOME THEY ARE....THOSE "FURBALLERS" THAT FLY IN A GREEN HORDE ATTACKING A LONE CON WITH HUGE NUMBERS TO bACK SLAP ABOUT HOW AWESOME THEY ARE, THEN THERE ARE THE....

YOU SEE WHAT i AM SAYING?

WE, ALL oF US, NO MATTER WHAT WE ENJOY IN ah, WE ALL ENJOY ah, TO MANY OF US IT IS MORE THEN "JUST A GAME" IT IS A PLACE TO HANG OUT WITH FRIENDS THAT WE HAVE MET,  AND HELL TO MANY, THE PEOPLE ON HERE HAVE BECOME LIKE FAMILY AND HAVE SPENT YEARS OF THERE LIFE with. i BELIEVE THIS IS WHY EMOTIONS GET HEATED AND YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS HERE.

   ME PERSONALLY  i ONLY FLY FIGHTERS AND ONLY FLY "FIGHTER" SORTIES, i HAVE NOT BEEN IN A gv OR bOMBER IN AT LEAST 3 YEARS, (even when my Muppet brothers take up the bombers or jump in GV's, I wont do it, I suck bad enough in fighters...ya should see me in bombers or Gv's....shivers)
 i DON'T CARE HOW MANY TIMES i DIE OR WHAT MY "RANK" IS.
i dont care how many FH hangers the bomber guys destroy, unless they come along and drop hangers to grief the "furballers"
I dont care if someone "Picks" or "Vulches" or "hords" to be the Bestest cartoon pilot in AH.

The one thing that I do get aggravated about and this happens pretty much every sortie,  I will be fighting multi cons say two or three,  and before I know it there are 10 to 15 guys all diving in and trying to kill me....this is something I just don't understand, especially when they come on 200 and talk smack about killing me....
      hell if  I see two guys fighting I will NOT interfere unless my friendly asks for assistance,  why on earth do these people do this????????    something I will never understand.

alright my rant is over......................... .........beep................ ...........beep.............. ................beep......... ............................. ............


edit----
well this is funny I use a custom font and I guess it does not show caps.... cap lock was on........................dur rrrrrrrrrrrrrr..... dee dee dee</sup></sub>

[Agent360]

It occured to me that perhaps the motives behind the radar changes might be:

In ww2 the Allies had better bombers. The goal was to destroy strategic targets. Fighters were there to escort and protect. The Axis goal was to destroy the bombers. The Allies had to stop the Axis fighters before they could destroy the bombers.

"Dog Fights" primarily resulted from this premise....NOT because Allied fighters went out looking for Axis fighters....that did happen but it wasn't something either side wanted to engage in.

Mabey...just mabey....the changes mean that

1. If you up a bomber mission the mission should include enough fighters to cover the bombers.

2. The radar changes mean that the bomber mission can be discovered in time for a defense to take off and intercept.

So this further means that there is more of a POINT TO FURBALLING...I like furballing...but I would like it even better if there was a REASON to get into a furball other than score.

Such as killing the escort, killing the buffs, and stopping a planned attack.

This might lead to organized fighter missions...which are very rare because there is no reason to other than pounce a base and CAP it for score kills.

Am I making any sense here?

[Crash Orange]

This game being about combat and all, it makes sense that players should be encouraged to fight each other, be it air, ground, or sea.

The trouble with that statement as it relates to the recent changes is that it assumes player response will be what you (or more importantly, hitech) hope it will be. But that isn't the path of last resistance, and the path of least resistance is what you're most likely to see.

In this case the path of least resistance is to send bomb-and-bailers to pork every radar within three sectors and then bring in buffs at 25k+ to drop all the hangers at the target base before bringing in fighters, town killers, and troops. It's also to fly in even bigger hordes than before.

And that's exactly what I've been seeing for the past three nights.

None of these changes is for the better. None of them encourages more fighting; in fact, they encourage less fighting and bigger hordes at the fights that do occur. With all the dar down people who want to up alone or in a pair and go hunting will have a much, much tougher time finding a fight. The only reliable way to find a fight will be to go to where there are 20-30 friendlies and an equally big enemy dar bar.

You'll also see more GVs and fewer fighters in base takes. Instead of scrambling fighters to intercept an incoming raid, you'll be scrambling them to dive-bomb incoming tanks. I don't think there are many players who find that more exciting.

Believe me, I'm not saying this because I think that's how things should go, I'm saying it because I regret that that's how things will go. And I'm not complaining because it will make taking bases harder - if it's harder for me, it's harder for the enemy too, so that's all good. I'm complaining because it will encourage worse gameplay, not better.

Much of the criticism of NOE raids has always been misplaced. You don't fly NOE to avoid combat. You fly NOE to gain the advantage of surprise so as to win the ensuing combat. You can't possibly avoid combat flying so low that it takes all of ten seconds for the enemy to take off and engage you. If you want to avoid combat you fly at 30k where no one can possibly catch you. Or you fly in enormous hordes so the enemy is intimidated out of even trying to resist. But flying in that huge horde is no less a problem if you come in at 10k than it is at 100 feet.

I enjoy defending against base takes at least as much as taking bases, and there's little in AH that excites me more than seeing 10-12 enemies pop up in an NOE raid. I know that if I up there I'll be in for a vicious knife fight and a challenging defense, and if a few other friendlies up we have a fighting chance to foil the attack. It's when the bad guys come in at 20k+ or in hordes of 30 or more that I know there's no point in taking off. And that's exactly what this change is already encouraging.

However, I really hope hitec will leave the settings the way they are for a bit rather than giving in to the temptation to keep tinkering in realtime. If he keeps tinkering, the source of the trouble will never be clear, but if we stick with the new settings for a few weeks, it will give everyone a better view of the resulting changes in behavior and what does and doesn't work in encouraging the sort of gameplay they'd like to see.

[Ack-Ack]

It's always amusing reading a post from a member of The Devil's Rejects pronounce how much they enjoy 'combat' when they do nothing but try and avoid it at every step.  I'm sure we'll be seeing you and the other Rejects at 35k in bombers bombing some undefended base and trying as hard as you can to avoid combat.  Just like you and the others were trying to do last night, though I shouldn't complain...not often do I win a 7v1 fight or rack up so many kills in just a few sorties.


ack-ack

[RTHolmes]

<sub><sup>i THINK MANY ARE STEREOTYPICALLY PLACING EVERY ONE IN ONE GROUP OR OTHER, WRONGLY, SAME WAY THEY DO WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT "SPIT PILOT" OR "la PILOTS" OR hURRI... ect ect  

SUNBAT IS CORRECT
ack ack IS CORRECT
1bONER IS CORRECT
RufusLeaking  IS CORRECT,
....ect ect</sup></sub>

that custom font still giving you trouble there ink? 

[Lusche]

Much of the criticism of NOE raids has always been misplaced. You don't fly NOE to avoid combat. You fly NOE to gain the advantage of surprise so as to win the ensuing combat. You can't possibly avoid combat flying so low that it takes all of ten seconds for the enemy to take off and engage you. If you want to avoid combat you fly at 30k where no one can possibly catch you. Or you fly in enormous hordes so the enemy is intimidated out of even trying to resist. But flying in that huge horde is no less a problem if you come in at 10k than it is at 100 feet.

While I agree with many of your statments to varying degrees, I have to disagree with this one.
In theory, you may be right. And some NOE attacks are really meant to break a stalemate, win a local fight, get another battle going.
What was getting a problem: Most were never flow with that intention. The only intention was to grab a base. Quick, and without risk. You could easily tell that both from execution as well as clearly stated mission goals & intentions on country channel: "Let's grab a base.. JOIN *insert amous lemming leader* mission, they never fail.. They can't defend them all, let's NOE AXXX". And when opposition shows up, the attack is not being pressed (and I do not refer to those situations where at some point it's absolutely clear the attacker has no chance to prevail), but quickly aborted... followed by a NOE at a totally different place by the same guys. And that being repeated for hours, always switching targets, and preferredly aimed at the country least likely to put up any resistance. Rinse & repeat. And a lot of local laughter & WTG if the base was captured without any resistance.

Just to emphasize again: I'm not a toolshedder-hating, landgrabbing-contempting furballer that wanted to get rid of NOE's. Heck, occasionally I have even joined some. I also have no general problem with guys tring to sneak, or to smash & grab a base in the most "efficient" way. I think all tactics have their place in the MA. But the usage of NOE's was on some days well beyond any proportions and did in fact really pose a gameplay problem affecting the whole arena.

[Zoney]

The trouble with that statement as it relates to the recent changes is that it assumes player response will be what you (or more importantly, hitech) hope it will be. But that isn't the path of last resistance, and the path of least resistance is what you're most likely to see.

In this case the path of least resistance is to send bomb-and-bailers to pork every radar within three sectors and then bring in buffs at 25k+ to drop all the hangers at the target base before bringing in fighters, town killers, and troops. It's also to fly in even bigger hordes than before.

And that's exactly what I've been seeing for the past three nights.

My observations are similar to yours, the only difference is I have been shooting them down before they drop, and I've been shooting them down at 30k, because I planned well, anticipated their attack, and put myself in a position to be able to defend against them.  I've tried "whining" them to death but I think cannons have proved to be more effective.  Yeah sometimes they get through and drop the dar, good for them, now I have to be even smarter, think faster and spend a few extra minutes positioning myself where I am most likely to have a timely engagement.  I thought it might be easier to defend with the new settings, it's not, but I think it has been alot more fun.  Maybe the difference is that I enjoy actually flying here and enjoy the time spent setting up an engagement as much as the engagement itself.

[texastc316]

I agree 110% with agent.

AKAK, got film on that 7 v 1? Saw you mention it last night, I'd like to see it.

[Ack-Ack]

I agree 110% with agent.

AKAK, got film on that 7 v 1? Saw you mention it last night, I'd like to see it.

Yeah, I filmed it.  Was a really fun sortie, as soon as I shot down one plane another would dive in until I ran out of bandits to shoot down.

ack-ack

[sky25]

The trouble with that statement as it relates to the recent changes is that it assumes player response will be what you (or more importantly, hitech) hope it will be. But that isn't the path of last resistance, and the path of least resistance is what you're most likely to see.

In this case the path of least resistance is to send bomb-and-bailers to pork every radar within three sectors and then bring in buffs at 25k+ to drop all the hangers at the target base before bringing in fighters, town killers, and troops. It's also to fly in even bigger hordes than before.

And that's exactly what I've been seeing for the past three nights.

None of these changes is for the better. None of them encourages more fighting; in fact, they encourage less fighting and bigger hordes at the fights that do occur. With all the dar down people who want to up alone or in a pair and go hunting will have a much, much tougher time finding a fight. The only reliable way to find a fight will be to go to where there are 20-30 friendlies and an equally big enemy dar bar.

You'll also see more GVs and fewer fighters in base takes. Instead of scrambling fighters to intercept an incoming raid, you'll be scrambling them to dive-bomb incoming tanks. I don't think there are many players who find that more exciting.

Believe me, I'm not saying this because I think that's how things should go, I'm saying it because I regret that that's how things will go. And I'm not complaining because it will make taking bases harder - if it's harder for me, it's harder for the enemy too, so that's all good. I'm complaining because it will encourage worse gameplay, not better.

Much of the criticism of NOE raids has always been misplaced. You don't fly NOE to avoid combat. You fly NOE to gain the advantage of surprise so as to win the ensuing combat. You can't possibly avoid combat flying so low that it takes all of ten seconds for the enemy to take off and engage you. If you want to avoid combat you fly at 30k where no one can possibly catch you. Or you fly in enormous hordes so the enemy is intimidated out of even trying to resist. But flying in that huge horde is no less a problem if you come in at 10k than it is at 100 feet.

I enjoy defending against base takes at least as much as taking bases, and there's little in AH that excites me more than seeing 10-12 enemies pop up in an NOE raid. I know that if I up there I'll be in for a vicious knife fight and a challenging defense, and if a few other friendlies up we have a fighting chance to foil the attack. It's when the bad guys come in at 20k+ or in hordes of 30 or more that I know there's no point in taking off. And that's exactly what this change is already encouraging.

However, I really hope hitec will leave the settings the way they are for a bit rather than giving in to the temptation to keep tinkering in realtime. If he keeps tinkering, the source of the trouble will never be clear, but if we stick with the new settings for a few weeks, it will give everyone a better view of the resulting changes in behavior and what does and doesn't work in encouraging the sort of gameplay they'd like to see.

 

[Crash Orange]

Now, you see, Ack-Ack, that's the difference between people like RufLeak, Snailman and myself on the one hand and you, Sunbat, and all the other obnoxious jerks on these forums on the other. Some of us try and have an adult discussion presenting reasoned arguments, sometimes agreeing and sometimes disagreeing, while dimwits like you - excuse me, your ilk - just want to sling insults around and think you're making some sort of point. Well, anyone can sling insults when that's the game, but I guess some just don't have the maturity or intelligence to join the adult discussion. Sucks being you.

Oh, and for the record, no more Rejects, we're the Devil's Brigade these days - we trimmed down the roster and merged with the former Screaming Devils.

[TW9]

Now, you see, Ack-Ack, that's the difference between people like RufLeak, Snailman and myself on the one hand and you, Sunbat, and all the other obnoxious jerks on these forums on the other. Some of us try and have an adult discussion presenting reasoned arguments, sometimes agreeing and sometimes disagreeing, while dimwits like you - excuse me, your ilk - just want to sling insults around and think you're making some sort of point. Well, anyone can sling insults when that's the game, but I guess some just don't have the maturity or intelligence to join the adult discussion. Sucks being you.

Oh, and for the record, no more Rejects, we're the Devil's Brigade these days - we trimmed down the roster and merged with the former Screaming Devils.

You're going on about others slinging insults and not acting like adults while slinging insults and rambling on like a child yourself.

[Crash Orange]

You're going on about others slinging insults and not acting like adults while slinging insults and rambling on like a child yourself.

And you're complaining about my complaining while you're complaining yourself. 

Again: anyone can insult when that's the game, the question is who is capable of reasoned discussion. There's no bringing down the level of Ack-Ack's discussion because it already started in the gutter (or as close as you can get without using banned language).