Author Topic: When Bambi attacks!!!!  (Read 2225 times)

Offline cattb

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2010, 11:50:35 PM »
The cat was lucky. It almost got it, one good stomp could have killed that cat easy.
If that was my dog, I would have put it inside and let the Doe get its fawn and move on.
Fawn on the BBQ, lol. Theres hardly any meat on a 7 month fawn let alone a newborn.

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Offline mtnman

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2010, 11:56:46 PM »
Not terribly important, but that isn't actually a whitetail deer.  The tail and stotting give it away.  You can see it in the fawn too.

What silly people...  It looks like they built their houses right smack in the middle of deer habitat, and then were surprised when the deer were there, and that she deemed the predator a threat to her young?  

She probably wouldn't have bothered with the cat had she not been worked up by the dog.  She actually tried to ignore it, then scare it away, and only gave it a little kick after it pawed her nose...  At 53 seconds in her body language tells the real story- she's trying to figure out what to do about the real threat, and she wants to leave.  She can't leave though, so she's placing her body between her fawn and the threat (which isn't the cat; she's a bit annoyed by the cat, but she isn't trying to defend her fawn from it).  Since flight isn't an option, she chooses to fight.

I'm actually surprised she didn't give the dog a better stomping.  She let it go pretty easy.  She could have done far worse...  Deer are actually pretty dangerous animals under the right circumstances, and this is one of them.  She could have killed the dog.  Deer actually kill people this way.  Generally they're captive deer, and the people involved are too comfortable around them.
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Offline Tr1gg22

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2010, 08:28:19 AM »
That crazy cat just had to push his luck :lol Little quicker than the dog... Although I dont think the dog seen the attack coming.. Crazy cat :rofl
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Offline mtnman

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2010, 10:19:08 AM »
That crazy cat just had to push his luck :lol Little quicker than the dog... Although I dont think the dog seen the attack coming.. Crazy cat :rofl

I highly doubt the dog was blind-sided.  As a matter of fact, I'd bet that if we could see the dog in the initial part of the clip, its behavior actually led to the attack (with the help of the dogs owner).

Watch the the doe.  She gives all sorts of indications of what's going on off-screen.  Right in the beginning of the clip, she's concerned about the cat, and comes in ready to defend her fawn from it.  She quickly realizes it isn't a threat at all, but rather just an annoyance.  She calms down; until she see's the dog at about 50 seconds into the clip.

Her tension escalates until she's finally had enough at about 1:10.  Before that, the fawn uses its defensive behavior (maybe alerted by the does behavior?).

My guess is that first of all, the dog knew the deer were there. 

Having dogs of my own, I cannot imagine it taking them more than an instant to detect the deer, especially since the deer were out in the open.  Considering that when we first see the dog, it's showing what appears to me to be submissive behavior and is heading towards the person who called it's name (who's calling its name from the other side of the street, and further away from the deer) I'm betting the dog was out of its yard, and was headed towards the deer in the time between 50 seconds and 1:10 in the clip.  It may not have been/probably wasn't "attacking" the deer, but I bet it was interested in (and approaching) the deer.

It wasn't just standing there, and it didn't just appear.  It's very unlikely that the doe wouldn't have detected the dog, so it (the dog) probably isn't on the scene at all initially.  It comes on the scene sometime after about 40 seconds into the clip. 

The does behavior shows this.  She probably wouldn't have even approached the fawn initially, had the dog been there.  The fawns best chance at survival is to not be detected.  It has no scent at this age, and is programmed to lie down flat and be still.  If the doe approaches the fawn with a threat nearby, she defeats those defenses, and leads to her offspring's death.  The cat throws a wild-card into the fray, though.  She may have been "forced" to approach her fawn, thinking she'd need to defend it from the cat...

If it (the dog) was aware of and interested in the deer, its body language would have been showing that.  Tied with approaching, that's bad news from the perspective of the deer.  Working-breed dogs like that would be very likely to be approaching in a manner that looks predatory, like stalking, too.  Low to the ground, using fairly short, repeated, advances.

At 1:11, the lady calls the dog.  The deer isn't to the dog yet.  This is when the lady (who'd probably been watching the whole thing...) recognizes that the deer is getting serious about defending her fawn, and decides maybe she should call her dog back.  At this point, the deer is threatening the dog by advancing, but still hasn't really "committed" to the attack yet.  She could easily still be "bluffing".  AT 1:14, it looks like something happened (that we can't see) that either convinces the doe that attack is necessary (which I doubt, since the threat level hasn't escalated), or that her attack has a high probability of success (she be able to defend the fawn, without getting injured herself).  Were I placing bets, I'd say that this is when the dog turned away from the deer (towards the lady calling it).  Turning its back on the doe was bad for the dog.  Had it stayed facing the dog, the doe would have probably stopped and postured a bit.  Turning away from the doe opened the door for attack.  At the same time, recognizing the threat of the approaching deer as well as the tone of the lady's voice, the dog likely exhibited submissive body language.  Now it's in trouble.

The doe had to take advantage of that, and right away; her fawns life was hanging in the balance.  The situation could quickly change, and she'd have missed her chance.  Failing to defend the fawn will generally mean a dead fawn, in the "real world".  The doe has no concept of "right and wrong".  And fat, over-fed, lazy, "soft" predators aren't the norm, in her world.  Normally, this is a deadly, serious game, that gets played over and over and over and over.  And in the "real world", her fawn wouldn't likely survive this.  Desperate times call for desperate measures...
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Offline Vudak

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2010, 10:59:19 AM »
Let's assume that instead of screaming and gawking at the deer with a camera, the people rush in to help the dog.  What happens next?  Does the deer continue fighting, or does its own flight instincts kick in?
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Offline mechanic

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2010, 11:03:30 AM »
probably depends on the body language of the humans, if they are nervous or confident would be reasonably easy for most animals to detect. It would be a an unfair fight 1 on 1, the deer has steel toe cap boots on.
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Offline Tr1gg22

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2010, 03:34:14 PM »
I highly doubt the dog was blind-sided.  As a matter of fact, I'd bet that if we could see the dog in the initial part of the clip, its behavior actually led to the attack (with the help of the dogs owner).

Watch the the doe.  She gives all sorts of indications of what's going on off-screen.  Right in the beginning of the clip, she's concerned about the cat, and comes in ready to defend her fawn from it.  She quickly realizes it isn't a threat at all, but rather just an annoyance.  She calms down; until she see's the dog at about 50 seconds into the clip.

Her tension escalates until she's finally had enough at about 1:10.  Before that, the fawn uses its defensive behavior (maybe alerted by the does behavior?).

My guess is that first of all, the dog knew the deer were there. 

Having dogs of my own, I cannot imagine it taking them more than an instant to detect the deer, especially since the deer were out in the open.  Considering that when we first see the dog, it's showing what appears to me to be submissive behavior and is heading towards the person who called it's name (who's calling its name from the other side of the street, and further away from the deer) I'm betting the dog was out of its yard, and was headed towards the deer in the time between 50 seconds and 1:10 in the clip.  It may not have been/probably wasn't "attacking" the deer, but I bet it was interested in (and approaching) the deer.

It wasn't just standing there, and it didn't just appear.  It's very unlikely that the doe wouldn't have detected the dog, so it (the dog) probably isn't on the scene at all initially.  It comes on the scene sometime after about 40 seconds into the clip. 

The does behavior shows this.  She probably wouldn't have even approached the fawn initially, had the dog been there.  The fawns best chance at survival is to not be detected.  It has no scent at this age, and is programmed to lie down flat and be still.  If the doe approaches the fawn with a threat nearby, she defeats those defenses, and leads to her offspring's death.  The cat throws a wild-card into the fray, though.  She may have been "forced" to approach her fawn, thinking she'd need to defend it from the cat...

If it (the dog) was aware of and interested in the deer, its body language would have been showing that.  Tied with approaching, that's bad news from the perspective of the deer.  Working-breed dogs like that would be very likely to be approaching in a manner that looks predatory, like stalking, too.  Low to the ground, using fairly short, repeated, advances.

At 1:11, the lady calls the dog.  The deer isn't to the dog yet.  This is when the lady (who'd probably been watching the whole thing...) recognizes that the deer is getting serious about defending her fawn, and decides maybe she should call her dog back.  At this point, the deer is threatening the dog by advancing, but still hasn't really "committed" to the attack yet.  She could easily still be "bluffing".  AT 1:14, it looks like something happened (that we can't see) that either convinces the doe that attack is necessary (which I doubt, since the threat level hasn't escalated), or that her attack has a high probability of success (she be able to defend the fawn, without getting injured herself).  Were I placing bets, I'd say that this is when the dog turned away from the deer (towards the lady calling it).  Turning its back on the doe was bad for the dog.  Had it stayed facing the dog, the doe would have probably stopped and postured a bit.  Turning away from the doe opened the door for attack.  At the same time, recognizing the threat of the approaching deer as well as the tone of the lady's voice, the dog likely exhibited submissive body language.  Now it's in trouble.

The doe had to take advantage of that, and right away; her fawns life was hanging in the balance.  The situation could quickly change, and she'd have missed her chance.  Failing to defend the fawn will generally mean a dead fawn, in the "real world".  The doe has no concept of "right and wrong".  And fat, over-fed, lazy, "soft" predators aren't the norm, in her world.  Normally, this is a deadly, serious game, that gets played over and over and over and over.  And in the "real world", her fawn wouldn't likely survive this.  Desperate times call for desperate measures...
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Offline morfiend

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2010, 04:08:37 PM »
 Both Golfer and Mtnman are spot on with their obsevations!

  the Cat was of little concern to the doe,had it latched on to the fawn I'm sure the Doe would have done something but that didnt happen.However the Dog,being offleash and roaming,certainly was a threat to both the Fawn and the Doe and Mom only did what any Mom would do and thats protect it's young.

 After the dog was stomped the cat became a threat as the Doe was on HIGH alert and the Cat is a preditor,even if a small one.

  Both the Cat and Dog should be locked up at the ASPCA for roaming and the owners fined for having animals at large.

 If both the Cat or Dog were confined,we wouldnt have this video in the first place and the Doe wouldnt of had to protect her Fawn.

  Call me a tree hugger all you want,I just dont think domestic animals should be able to roam freely about and ya my dog would have eaten the Cat,Doe and Fawn but I dont allow them to run free.

   :salute

Offline Tr1gg22

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2010, 04:59:40 PM »
 :lol turn the cat in for roaming free :aok  Good 1 :noid
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Offline morfiend

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2010, 05:10:28 PM »
:lol turn the cat in for roaming free :aok  Good 1 :noid


 Actually yes,the city I live in has laws against roaming cats,all cats must be licsenced and confined to the owners property,failure to do so subjects the cat to capture from the humane society and a $100 dollar fine!

 So laugh as much as you like,however any cat that comes into my yard is subject to capture by my dogs,either case problem solved!!

   :salute

Offline fbWldcat

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2010, 05:13:43 PM »
Both Golfer and Mtnman are spot on with their obsevations!

  the Cat was of little concern to the doe,had it latched on to the fawn I'm sure the Doe would have done something but that didnt happen.However the Dog,being offleash and roaming,certainly was a threat to both the Fawn and the Doe and Mom only did what any Mom would do and thats protect it's young.

 After the dog was stomped the cat became a threat as the Doe was on HIGH alert and the Cat is a preditor,even if a small one.

  Both the Cat and Dog should be locked up at the ASPCA for roaming and the owners fined for having animals at large.

 If both the Cat or Dog were confined,we wouldnt have this video in the first place and the Doe wouldnt of had to protect her Fawn.

  Call me a tree hugger all you want,I just dont think domestic animals should be able to roam freely about and ya my dog would have eaten the Cat,Doe and Fawn but I dont allow them to run free.

   :salute

I just hate people who let their animals roam free. We see way too many domestic animals on the side of the roads around here all the time, cats, dogs, hell, even a Canary one time. And in my area, we have a huge threat of coyotes, foxes, raccoon, opossum. I have seen coyotes by the highway by my house attacking a owner's dog, in an area where owners just let their dogs run free.

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Offline Anodizer

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2010, 05:43:51 PM »
I shot all 3 of my neighbors pitbull's after the pepper spray didn't work..
I don't care who you are:  Your dog threatens my kids, it's dead....
Neighbor had a problem with this..  But the cops didn't...  :)   :D
 
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Offline Tr1gg22

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2010, 05:57:14 PM »
I shot all 3 of my neighbors pitbull's after the pepper spray didn't work..
I don't care who you are:  Your dog threatens my kids, it's dead....
Neighbor had a problem with this..  But the cops didn't...  :)   :D
 
well on that note i will shoot anything that threatens my children people included...

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Offline maddafinga

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2010, 06:13:15 PM »
I shot all 3 of my neighbors pitbull's after the pepper spray didn't work..
I don't care who you are:  Your dog threatens my kids, it's dead....
Neighbor had a problem with this..  But the cops didn't...  :)   :D
 

Well let me say first that I'm a pitbull lover and owner, and I totally believe that you're dead on right in that case man.  I'd go further even, you should use the pepper spray on their owner who had dogs that would behave in that way and let them roam free to boot.  It was his irresponsibility that led to those dogs being shot, and nothing else.  That kind of thing gives the breed a bad name, when it should be giving idiots a bad name. 

Glad your kids weren't hurt. 
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Offline allaire

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Re: When Bambi attacks!!!!
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2010, 06:27:20 PM »
Had that same problem 18 months ago.  Cities around central AR have been banning certain breeds of dogs due to statistics.  The owners had a choice register and chip their dogs and keep them either in their yard, inside the house, or penned up, or move.  Some opted to move out where I was living and some still let their animals roam free.  After I took a shot at the neighbors dogs that where on our property that were being aggressive, standing on the back steps and barking/growling and anyone trying to leave through that door and harassing the horses, with rat shot at 25ft to provide a little reinforcement on the dogs and their owner to not act retarded.  The same guy was told by another neighbor when the dogs where bothering his goats, "that the next time they come within 10ft of my property you will have 3 dead dogs."  Just go to show you that some people shouldn't be allow to own pets.
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