Wiring codes and selling houses

[Meatwad]

Cant really find an answer online so need some insight on this.


Seen a house for sale and long story short it was inspected today. The breaker box is 100 amp, 12 hole but NO main breaker. There is no disconnect outside the house so only way to completely de-energise the house would be to trip all 12 breakers or pull the meter. This itself isnt up to code and since I cant find any illinois codes about wiring, would the seller be required to bring the electrical or at least the panel back up to code? Also the panel is not grounded to a ground rod under the meter which seems to also be a code requirement

[uptown]

The seller is not responsible for bringing the electric up to code. I've bought and sold several houses over the past few years, both up to date and some already condemned and have never been approached about it either way. Except by the State Farm guy  

It's up to the buyer to know what's he's buying.

What you could do..if you're really interested in the house, is find out how much it'd cost to bring everything up to where it does meet code and subtract that from the buying price. That way you won't be out anything. And the insurance man will be easier on ya too.  

Just tell the seller, "hey this isn't up to code. If you want to sell it today, this is my offer". Take it or leave it. 

[Meatwad]

Wasnt up to date on all this stuff and wanted to know about it. Definately something to put on the table and see what they say about the costs.

[Dragon]

I've never seen an electrical box without a main breaker.  Fuse panels would normally have 1 60 amp for the second box and a main even.  


Unless your buying FHA, the buyer would be responsible for the upgrade.  Things like this fall under the grandfather clause.  See if the seller would come down 1000.00 dollars to cover the mandatory upgrade.  

If the box is 100 amp, the supply going to the house is probably 60 amp.  Verify this with the electric co.  1 grand should cover an upgrade in the elec service to 100 or 125 amp as well as the new box and grounding rod.  

The wiring in the house might need to be updated too though.  You may need to see how many outlets/lights are on each run.  Depending on the size of the house, 12 should be OK.  If knob and tube wiring though, you could be looking at an additional ex pence to rewire properly.

If you know an electrician, have them investigate the house.  If not, contact the local city hall to see who they recommend.  After calling them, you might find someone willing to look at it for a few beers and 100 bucks.

Barter within the trades goes a bit further than actual cash.  Not sure what you do for a living Meatwad, but look into that.

[Nwbie]

If you are in Centralia as on your BB id - look here --

http://library3.municode.com/default-now/home.htm?infobase=10104&doc_action=whatsnew

most electrical codes are enforced by the town or city you live in - I would contact your village hall to find out what the building inspector has to say


NwBie

[guncrasher]

Cant really find an answer online so need some insight on this.

 would the seller be required to bring the electrical or at least the panel back up to code?

who pays for what needs to be fixed is always negotiable, of course the lender may require it to be fixed before closing.  This is the main reason why a home inspection is needed prior to making an offer.  or the offer should have a home inspection contingency. 

semp

[oneway]

Focusing on the absence of of main disconnect in front of your 100 amp service panel is like complaining that the hub caps on your AMC Pacer are not shiny enough...

Even if the Pacer had the disconnect added after it was built it would still be a Pacer...

A 100 Amp service today is barely adequate to handle a 2.5 x 1.5 standard floor plan given the broader new age demands  and service buffers of modern electrical service...and is woefully inadequate if your Dryer and/or any element of your home heating is drawing amps...

Don't let the absence of a main disconnect in front of your 100 service dissuade you from making a purchase decision...rather ascertain the demands of the electrical fixtures and appliances on this system and make sure 100 amps is adequate...Before fretting about a 200 dollar front end sub disconnect...

The fact of the matter is that a 200 amp main with a possible 100 amp sub is the standard today...and old houses are just that...old...even though they me be only 20 years of age...

Before worrying about a main disconnect, inspect the waste system, sub-grade drainage, roof, insulation and weather stripping...these elements in proper working order will pay for a boat load of 200 amp panels and breaker suites...

Out

Oneway

35 years in the business...

[mbailey]

Focusing on the absence of of main disconnect in front of your 100 amp service panel is like complaining that the hub caps on your AMC Pacer are not shiny enough...

Even if the Pacer had the disconnect added after it was built it would still be a Pacer...

A 100 Amp service today is barely adequate to handle a 2.5 x 1.5 standard floor plan given the broader new age demands  and service buffers of modern electrical service...and is woefully inadequate if your Dryer and/or any element of your home heating is drawing amps...

Don't let the absence of a main disconnect in front of your 100 service dissuade you from making a purchase decision...rather ascertain the demands of the electrical fixtures and appliances on this system and make sure 100 amps is adequate...Before fretting about a 200 dollar front end sub disconnect...

The fact of the matter is that a 200 amp main with a possible 100 amp sub is the standard today...and old houses are just that...old...even though they me be only 20 years of age...

Before worrying about a main disconnect, inspect the waste system, sub-grade drainage, roof, insulation and weather stripping...these elements in proper working order will pay for a boat load of 200 amp panels and breaker suites...

Out

Oneway

35 years in the business...

All true statements, one thing i would add is make sure the wire is not aluminum or that its not Knob and Tube wiring, both of which are very dangerous. I am a Property adjuster for an insurance company and the above 2 types of wiring cause over 80% of the electrical fires I see.

[Meatwad]

Wiring is 12/2 copper romex, no K&T wiring at all. Service drop according to the inspector is rated at 125A so 100A box would be needed. I have lived off 100A most of my life and I have never had any issues due to lack of power so its plenty enough for me. Installing a new box and running some 12/2G wouldnt be an issue with me as long as I keep everying to code.

As a first time home buyer im learning as I go

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Never buy your first house to suit only yourself. Most people sell their first house before living in it for 10 years. Make sure whatever you buy will sell easily when you decide to leave.

[SIK1]

I would like to add one thing. If the breakers are Zinsco you are better off replacing the panel.

I just went through this. I had a 100 amp main breaker go bad, and after doing some research found out Zinsco breakers are about the worst type that can be in your house. The breakers are also very expensive too replace. A 100 amp Zinsco breaker is about $150

The replacement panel, breakers and misc. parts cost me about $200. I paid a friend that's a licensed electrician to do the job. It took him about five hours or so.

[mbailey]

As a first time home buyer im learning as I go

Congratulations sir      

Funny what Virgil states, but sooooo true, I sold my first house 5yrs after buying it and thinking ahead i was glad i did exactly what he states, we were lucky, the first house was perfect for us, not to big,not to small but just right for a family of 4. It was easy to get rid of when we upgraded, it was the perfect "first time home buyer" house.

[morfiend]

There's been alot of good advice thown out here!

 1st I'd have the house inspected by an inspector that knows what he's doing and make a note of any problems as this is used as a bargaining tool.

 2nd call your insurance company after the inspection and find out if there's anything that will cause you any issues with your insurance.Where I live you cannot get insurance if you have K&T wiring.

 If your handy at all rewiring a house isnt really all that hard and you can safe a pile of money chasing the wires yourself and then having an electrician doing the final connects and certifying the electical system. I just did my house afew months back as I had to meet code for a new kitchen.

 As someone else said there's plenty of other systems in the house that cost alot more to repair or replace so a good inspection would be the place to start.

   

[68ZooM]

I'm a first time home buyer also, i bought mine last July and i would most defiantly get a Home Inspection, most Real Estate agents advise you to get one also, Most inspection companies like it when you are there with them, It gives you time to ask questions and follow him around, my inspector was a nice guy and very informative, my home was built in 1936 by a local Mill supervisor, he used dimensional lumber when building it, very old style 2 story craftsman type, original glass door knobs, skeleton key locks, the seller did a complete rewire ( permitted and passed code) and new copper water lines, drywall, paint everything... what sold me was the great home report and i just loved the old house, i have alot of plans for it, then sell in 3 years or so, the price i paid i wont get hurt reselling

[smoe]

As long as the breakers add up to less than 100A for each hot phase you may technically be ok. Calc. goes like this (2-pole breakers + 1-pole breakers/2).