F4U v. Ki-84 tips?

[Wildcat1]

was wondering if i could meet up with a trainer this week who could help me out here. to practice for this upcomming scenario, could i get some tips on the best way to defeat a Ki-84 in an F4U, specifically inthe -1D. would love some "on-the-job" training, such as a 1 v 1. thanks

[humble]

biggest issue is relative E state. If your +E work to keep it and if not work to get it. The hog can't climb or accelerate with the ki-84 so you need to prevent the fight getting low and slow. Keeping the fight fast enough for you to use your flaps (sparingly) where the ki cant (250-165) will help you...once the ki and get slow enough to get his flaps out your dead if you cant run most of the time....he can also take the fight back up at will. Basically get control of the perch, keep control and shoot him till stuff falls of and then shoot him again...

[Big Rat]

First off, great Matchup   Bighorn and I have done this one quite a few times.   Him in the Ki and me in the Hog, great fights with first mistake looses.   I don't agree on the Hog being dead meat at slower speeds with the 84.  As Snaphook mentioned the, best idea is to stay on top of the 84, becouse if it gets on top, you are in big trouble.  With it's superior accleration and climb it's hard to get equal e-states back again once it's on top of the fight.  The best way to kill 84's is either by staying fast, you do have a faster top speed and superior in a dive, or real slow, I don't put the 84 in the same category as a hog or a N1k at low speeds. The smart 84 once slow will try to work his way back up on top of the fight. If they try to fly slow and stall fight with my Hog, they are playing my game. So if you do get slow with one you must be able to handle your hog well at low speeds and be able to hold back enough E to get your nose up to keep the 84 in your fire cone, when he tries to get above you.  You use the same basic tactics as you would fighting almost any better climbing and accelerating plane with the Hog, if you get a chance to end the fight quickly before the fight gets real slow (killing them in your 1st2nd flap zone while they are still in a no flap zone) do so.  If not be very conscious of your E state and conserve it as much as you can to then use it when you see your shot opportunity present itself.  Send me a PM if you want to do some work

 
BigRat

[shiv]

Since it's a scenario and not a 1v1 you might have another edge in the F4U.  The hog retains E extremely well, and zoom climbs very well.  So if you see a co-alt-ish dot approaching then you dive for speed and then level out once you get a head of steam up.   If things fall out right you can come in a little below  him at  icon range but carrying much more speed.  The KI in that situation may very well misjudge your E.  His mistake then would be to try and control the fight by climbing and maybe even trying to rope you, and you can give him a very nasty shock by being able to follow him up.

[JunkyII]

Being a scenario the fight is going to be high alt as well....not the best place for a KI84. I used to fly the 84 a ton and all I wanted to do with Hogs is get them below me on the deck....dont let that happen

[Wildcat1]

thanks all for the tips

[maddafinga]

I'm flying the ki84 a lot the last couple of camps, if you see me on, shoot me a pm.  I'll hit the da or the ta with you and we can run the matchup as many times as you like.

[Saxman]

Since it's a scenario and not a 1v1 you might have another edge in the F4U.  The hog retains E extremely well, and zoom climbs very well.  So if you see a co-alt-ish dot approaching then you dive for speed and then level out once you get a head of steam up.   If things fall out right you can come in a little below  him at  icon range but carrying much more speed.  The KI in that situation may very well misjudge your E.  His mistake then would be to try and control the fight by climbing and maybe even trying to rope you, and you can give him a very nasty shock by being able to follow him up.

Trading altitude and intentionally putting yourself below your opponent is REALLY dicey. I'd rather meet the Frank co-alt than with him above me, regardless of my airspeed. The Hog CAN trick an unwary opponent into assuming he has less E than he really does, setting up a nice little surprise zoom under his belly, but I'd much rather not put myself into this position intentionally.

All said, IMO the Ki-84 is the Corsair's most dangerous opponent, especially in the right hands. Against most aircraft the Corsair usually has a clear-cut advantage in at least one asset that it can exploit. The Frank doesn't give the F4Us many openings.

Obviously, I'm not counting the -4.

[Oldman731]

great fights with first mistake looses. 

Agreed.  One of the best matches in the game.  If you're familiar with your plane, whichever it is, the initial position advantage and the who-makes-the-first-mistake factor will determine the outcome.

- oldman

[shiv]

Trading altitude and intentionally putting yourself below your opponent is REALLY dicey. I'd rather meet the Frank co-alt than with him above me, regardless of my airspeed. The Hog CAN trick an unwary opponent into assuming he has less E than he really does, setting up a nice little surprise zoom under his belly, but I'd much rather not put myself into this position intentionally.

All said, IMO the Ki-84 is the Corsair's most dangerous opponent, especially in the right hands. Against most aircraft the Corsair usually has a clear-cut advantage in at least one asset that it can exploit. The Frank doesn't give the F4Us many openings.

Obviously, I'm not counting the -4.

Point taken Saxman.  I'm not in your league to be sure so I don't want to argue the point,  but to explain further I've been doing that as a counter to the F4U's poor acceleration, operating on the principle that it'd be better to be slightly lower and definitely faster than co-alt and co-E.   And  I don't necessarily go for the belly shot; I'm usually trying to saddle up or establish position.  *Usually* works quite well against random opponents in the MA but I'll try it your way though for a bit now and see how I do.

<<S>>

[WMLute]

Trading altitude and intentionally putting yourself below your opponent is REALLY dicey. I'd rather meet the Frank co-alt than with him above me, regardless of my airspeed. The Hog CAN trick an unwary opponent into assuming he has less E than he really does, setting up a nice little surprise zoom under his belly, but I'd much rather not put myself into this position intentionally.

All said, IMO the Ki-84 is the Corsair's most dangerous opponent, especially in the right hands. Against most aircraft the Corsair usually has a clear-cut advantage in at least one asset that it can exploit. The Frank doesn't give the F4Us many openings.

Obviously, I'm not counting the -4.

being slightly under your opponent on the merge (especially if you can have a bit more e) puts you at a huge positional advantage.

there is a reason players dive when they have vis during a duel.
(BigMax taught me this many moons ago the hard way)

[Wildcat1]

speak of the , i killed a Ki-84 in an A-hog today...

he caught me asleep at the wheel, and when i realized he was on me, i quickly dove to the deck and got up to around 475 kts. realizing that he, somehow, was gaining on me, i did a sharp turn to the right, taking advantage of the hog's superb high-speed manuverability. when the frank realized he was losing me, he reversed his turn, and within 15 seconds, was on my 6 again. then, i reversed my own turn, chopped the throttle, put on full flaps and full left rudder, and was on the knife-edge of the hog's limit, hovering at slightly above 100 kts. he jinked and stalled, and fell into the ocean. i was credited with the manuvering kill

so, was this simply good luck for me, an inexpirienced Ki pilot, or did i actually do the right thing here?

[Ghastly]

Does the KI still shed it's elevators at (IIRC) about 465 MPH?  Every time I've flown one in the past I end up losing the elevators, and while it's been a while since I've been up against one, I've not yet had one stick with me if I use that against my opponent, and dive out when the fight doesn't go my way. 

<S>

[humble]

I had a ki-84 run me down in the AvA the other night in a D pony. I was doing well over 400 and had never even gotten slow or overly hung out. They accelerate and hold E (until they break) very well. To me a -E Ki-84 is just a target but one with E and/or alt has to be given a lot of respect...

[JunkyII]

Does the KI still shed it's elevators at (IIRC) about 465 MPH?  Every time I've flown one in the past I end up losing the elevators, and while it's been a while since I've been up against one, I've not yet had one stick with me if I use that against my opponent, and dive out when the fight doesn't go my way. 

<S>

Probably....In a KI84 I never really wanted to merge at any speed higher then about 360 MPHs....not that I know what its best speed for turn preformance is but it worked wonders for me.

Reason being I felt like I could easily go from a angles merge to an E merge at that speed. Of course Im merging at first wep off unless I slow then Ill have it on. Its a great climber and has awesome acceleration and turns with most of the best.


I wouldnt try to hide E from a good KI pilot because he can easily do the same. There would be times I see someone diving in and Ill just extend away level while he rolls then Ill pull up once I know I got alot of E on him and probably some alt too. F6Fs and Hogs are great for that.