Which of these 2 motherboards is better for what im building?

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Ripley has never heard of the problems of running Nvidia Nforce chipsets with ATI video cards obviously.

And obviously you can't take user reports with a grain of salt. The problems are not related to chipsets if some users have problems, some don't using same hardware. If the problem would be compatability or specs, every user would have problems.

The issue is that IF a user has a problem and coincidentally uses mixed brands, the blame goes there however untrue it is.

Just to put some perspective, if ATI or Nvidia would build boards that discriminate against competing products, the companies would be slapped to the moon with a class action suit and/or anticompetitive law suits.

[gyrene81]

Actually Ripley, there is a documented history of various versions of Nforce chipsets being incompatible with various ATI gpu's. From way back with the nForce 4 series chipsets to now. Sometimes there are bios fixes, most of the time there isn't.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I think this kind of a situation is the most common occurrence. This came up while trying to google for references on the incompatibility.

Do you have any links about the issue gyrene?

[Tac]

Thanks Gyrene.

Im aware the card isnt top notch.. but its cheap and right now price is an issue. It will outperform my current nvidia 7800GT and will run my games well enough.. in any case a vid card is the first component one upgrades for a gaming rig so the first upgrade for this rig..a year or so from now.. will be the vid card.

im building a computer out of my old mobo+vid card+hdd and will give it to a kid whose parents cant afford to buy her a computer. got an old pc case here..just need to buy it a power supply and she'll be good to go. should last her till college and even play the Sims which she loves .

[TequilaChaser]

Good Evening MrRiplEy[H],

I made the following suggestions & comments

this ASUS MB has ATI onboard video and is designed for Ati dedicated cards in my opinion....

if I was going to build using AMD, I would want to also use ATI video, especially if the North Bridge & South bridge of the MB is "ATI Driven" ....... it will just work better..... also, not knocking that OCZ ram, but Corsair seems to work better for me when using ASUS & AMD porducts.....

again another personal opinion.......  do your research...... then double check everything before you make the order

good luck

link to ASUS MB, the OP provided:

ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO AM3 AMD 785G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131398

this newegg page says the following about this MB:

You'll also have access to the most powerful and fastest video processing around when you install a discrete ATI video card that will work in conjunction with the onboard GPU for a unique Hybrid CrossFireX configuration.

show me where I posted a myth?

then show me where I posted the truth and posted a personal view....... ( do not forget my final line of text before commenting, please )

 

[gyrene81]

I think this kind of a situation is the most common occurrence. This came up while trying to google for references on the incompatibility.

Do you have any links about the issue gyrene?

Here you go Ripley. Mostly consumers complaining to thin air because the manufacturers don't post any warnings, even when the consumers are posting complaints on their boards.

nForce 650i and ATI 5870
http://horsegoeswest.com/?p=1011

Another report of ATI 5000 series video cards being incompatible with nForce chipsets
http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=260&threadid=132647

A post on Tom's hardware
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/260759-33-nvidia-chipset-mobo-video-card-incompatible

Really old complaint involving the nForce2 chipset and an ATI Radeon 9600
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/16244/

Not exactly the same issue as what you found.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Here you go Ripley. Mostly consumers complaining to thin air because the manufacturers don't post any warnings, even when the consumers are posting complaints on their boards.

nForce 650i and ATI 5870
http://horsegoeswest.com/?p=1011

Another report of ATI 5000 series video cards being incompatible with nForce chipsets
http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=260&threadid=132647

A post on Tom's hardware
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/260759-33-nvidia-chipset-mobo-video-card-incompatible

Really old complaint involving the nForce2 chipset and an ATI Radeon 9600
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/16244/

Not exactly the same issue as what you found.

Interesting. The Tomshardware link was actually the only one I clicked but immediately the results show

a) It is a misguided user lead by the _myth_ asking about compatibility.

b) answer is and I quote: doesn't matter. You wont be able to xfire on that mobo (dont try to hack the drivers) but you can use a single ATI card on there without any conflict.

c) x58 and later chipsets have removed the artificial limitation regarding to crossfire/sli

as what goes to your Newegg page you have a trouble with reading comprehension. At no point does the text "You'll also have access to the most powerful and fastest video processing around when you install a discrete ATI video card that will work in conjunction with the onboard GPU for a unique Hybrid CrossFireX configuration. " imply Nvidia cards are not suitable to be used with the motherboard. It goes without saying that Crossfire will not work with mixed ati/nvidia brand graphics cards.

Horsegoeswest website says:

This is utterly frustrating as the tech should be 100% compatible. There’s nothing that make you suspect that the card wouldn’t work. Now there’s pages of people complaining on the Asus forums along with numerous tech support forums out there.

This is an issue with a single motherboard model from a single brand, not chipset incompatibility.

Hardwareanalysis site:

>> Re: ATI Radeon 9600 not compatible with NForce2 chipset??
I had that problem with a 9600 Pro...I upgraded to a 9800 and no problems. Try turning off write combining and Fast writes and see if that help. Have you tried CAT 3.7 too? The older drivers seemed to work better with the 9600 Pro, don't know why. Also I think there may have been a problem with them running in AGP 8x, but I think they are working on the fix. Maybe try turning it to 4X until ATI fixes the problem.

NOT a problem with nforce2 chipset and ATI but a single user having A problem with two individual pieces of hardware which is totally coincidental. Other users have it working, other hardware combinations using same brands are working. Get the picture? Myth is fueled with people who spread the myth without digging into the facts and jumping into conclusions instead.


So, again we face similar misconceptions like in our earlier debates about tech.

[gyrene81]

You really should get some real world experience Ripley. Anyone who has made a living working on computers knows, nothing is 100% compatible. When it comes to mobo chipsets, the manufacturer of the motherboard doesn't make much difference unless they deviated from the chipset manufacturers specs, which happens occasionally on overclocker mobos. Since Nvidia introduced the nForce chipset, the nForce/ATI compatibility issues have ranged from slow or no POST to random miscellaneous OS/driver issues. Sometimes a bios update eliminated the issues. Strangely enough the odd numbered nForce chipsets were nearly trouble free where the even numbered ones had compatibility issues until a fix could be created. There were rare instances when no fix was produced.

Personally, I prefer the ATI graphics cards with Intel chipset mobos. Never experienced a hardware compatibility issue using Intel chipsets with either Nvidia, ATI or Matrox graphics cards or any other peripherals. I deviated from that with my current nForce 680i LT chipset gaming system and even with the last bios update, if I put an ATI card in the system it does a very slow POST. My co-worker has an nForce 780i chipset motherboard with an ATI 4770 video card and has had no issues. Both systems have mobo and video cards from the same manufacturer.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

You really should get some real world experience Ripley. Anyone who has made a living working on computers knows, nothing is 100% compatible. When it comes to mobo chipsets, the manufacturer of the motherboard doesn't make much difference unless they deviated from the chipset manufacturers specs, which happens occasionally on overclocker mobos. Since Nvidia introduced the nForce chipset, the nForce/ATI compatibility issues have ranged from slow or no POST to random miscellaneous OS/driver issues. Sometimes a bios update eliminated the issues. Strangely enough the odd numbered nForce chipsets were nearly trouble free where the even numbered ones had compatibility issues until a fix could be created. There were rare instances when no fix was produced.

Personally, I prefer the ATI graphics cards with Intel chipset mobos. Never experienced a hardware compatibility issue using Intel chipsets with either Nvidia, ATI or Matrox graphics cards or any other peripherals. I deviated from that with my current nForce 680i LT chipset gaming system and even with the last bios update, if I put an ATI card in the system it does a very slow POST. My co-worker has an nForce 780i chipset motherboard with an ATI 4770 video card and has had no issues. Both systems have mobo and video cards from the same manufacturer.

But you see the problems are not consistent. If it had anything to do with real incompatibility or specs the problems would be consistent all over. Are you saying you never had problems while using nvidia board with nvidia graphics card? Wait what caused those? Incompatability of nvidia to support their own devices?

The problem is that hardware devices vary. Some models are simply bad, some individual samples can be damaged from factory. And when a user hits a problem, the mythical combination is blamed. In the tomshardware forum post the user actually switched brands to create a harmonic nvidia setup however that did nothing to fix the problem at hand. And you still think it's a case of incompatibility?

Having said all that, everyone is entitled to their opinnions about the issue and free to make their own decisions. There is nothing bad about choosing a single brand for a setup - but IMO it would be just misinformed to claim brands are 'incompatible' because both run on exactly same specs SLI/Xfire excluded naturally.

[gyrene81]

But you see the problems are not consistent. If it had anything to do with real incompatibility or specs the problems would be consistent all over. Are you saying you never had problems while using nvidia board with nvidia graphics card? Wait what caused those? Incompatability of nvidia to support their own devices?

In this business, a few incidents here and there across different brands is incidental. Many incidents across multiple brands with one element exactly the same is not. Pretty obvious there is some issue when weeks after release a manufacturer releases a firmware/bios update. Yes I am saying that I have never had a hardware compatibility issue running nForce mobos with GeForce video cards. Nor have I ever had a hardware compatibility issue running ATI and Matrox video cards with SiS or Intel chipset mobos.


Universal plug n play standardization is not quite where it should be just yet but it's a heck of a lot better than the old proprietary technology days with dip switches and jumpers. It wasn't that long ago when there was no such thing as shared IRQ's and DMA channels.

[Pudgie]

I would suggest the MSI mobo as well over the Asus.

As for the ATI/Nvidia incompatibility issues my 2 cents:

If the mobos were true SINGLE SLOT PCI-E 16x mobos (no X-Fire or SLI) then I believe that there wouldn't be any issues at all as there would be absolutely NO advantage, either real or perceived, gained for either company by having a "proprietary" product.

Now w/ the advent of SLI/Crossfire platforms which are not cross-compatible (by design) then there can exist some incompatibility, especially on any mobos that are not classified as "mainstream or general usage" using either an AMD (ATI) or Nvidia chipset onboard. My EVGA 780i FTW mobo is a prime example of this. This mobo is classified as an "enthusiast" level mobo--not mainstream/general usage. The PCI-E 16x slots on this mobo do not necessarily hold to the expected industry standard--they are set up specifically to optimize Nvidia SLI/Tri SLI usage & as a result some "standard" PCI-E devices will have issues operating or simply will not work in it's 16x slots. Been there, done that.
At this level neither Nvidia/ATI can be held liable for not "ensuring" cross-compatibility as these types of mobos are specific-usage (modified), not general usage.

We must not lose sight that in Intel's chipset this is a 3rd party chipset (not manufactured by either Nvidia/ATI) & as such can (and has) made stipulation that BOTH platform's technologies will be supported on any mobo that their chipset is being used on (starting w/ the X58 & up). This forces BOTH Nvidia/ATI to "play together" & thus ensuring standardization.

My 2 cents. YMMV & you may not agree w/ this synopsis.

If I were to be looking at any mobo these days I would answer this question before I start looking:
"Am I going to want the mobo to support both vid card maker's technologies?"

If the answer is yes then I would be looking at Intel X58/H55/P55 equipped mobos to ensure this.

Done.

 

[MrRiplEy[H]]

In this business, a few incidents here and there across different brands is incidental. Many incidents across multiple brands with one element exactly the same is not. Pretty obvious there is some issue when weeks after release a manufacturer releases a firmware/bios update.

And that was surely done with every single manufacturer and every single model using that said chipset? Because that's what a chipset incompatibility would have required. Or was it in the end a single product that required a fix like any other bios update out there...

If it was just one product, there were at least 20 others that received no update nor probably had problems. Google can mislead real bad too because you will never find a thread saying 'woohoo installed mixed brands and everything works just like it should'. But you will then again find every complainer asking for help.

[gyrene81]

And that was surely done with every single manufacturer and every single model using that said chipset? Because that's what a chipset incompatibility would have required. Or was it in the end a single product that required a fix like any other bios update out there...

If it was just one product, there were at least 20 others that received no update nor probably had problems. Google can mislead real bad too because you will never find a thread saying 'woohoo installed mixed brands and everything works just like it should'. But you will then again find every complainer asking for help.

I hope you realize chipset related issues are not rectified by the motherboard manufacturer unless it is a proprietary standard based on the motherboard manufacturers standards, which does not happen in the retail sector any longer, and rarely in the OEM sector. So yes, all retail motherboard manufacturers producing retail nForce motherboards would receive update/patch files directly from Nvidia...same goes for the SiS and Intel chipset motherboards.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I hope you realize chipset related issues are not rectified by the motherboard manufacturer unless it is a proprietary standard based on the motherboard manufacturers standards, which does not happen in the retail sector any longer, and rarely in the OEM sector. So yes, all retail motherboard manufacturers producing retail nForce motherboards would receive update/patch files directly from Nvidia...same goes for the SiS and Intel chipset motherboards.

Would but didnt, this was an isolated product case, right? I mean even your own links contradict your message. Tomshardware said plain and simple there is absolutely no reason to avoid mixing mobo/graphics card brand.

[gyrene81]

Would but didnt, this was an isolated product case, right? I mean even your own links contradict your message. Tomshardware said plain and simple there is absolutely no reason to avoid mixing mobo/graphics card brand.

Yeah, isolated to personal experience with the nForce 4 SLI chipset motherboards from Abit, Gigabyte and Asus with Radeon 9xxx series AGP video cards from Diamond, Visiontek, Asus, Powercolor, then again with the nForce 6xx chipsets and random Radeon 4xxx and 5xxx PCIe x16 video cards with motherboards from XFX, EVGA and Asus. I make a lot of money on side jobs from people who believe everything they read from Toms hardware, PC Mag, PC World, Maximum PC, etc... If I accepted every call that came in and charged what the computer shops charge I could quit my job but I don't believe in penalizing people for being naive. Do you seriously think I would be saying anything if I didn't experience this stuff first hand?