new nickname for browning .50 cals

[Motherland]

Both are extremly different, 50 cal actually does something in this video then what they do in AH.

You're right, in that video none of the planes broke up structurally despite being hit consistently from ~100 yards. It seems that the .50 cal is overmodeled.

[Ack-Ack]

In addition, THRASH99 isn't taking into account the damage animations the game uses when comparing the video to the game.  The damage caused by the .50 calibers in game isn't shown graphically like it is in the real world video but that in no way means that the .50 caliber is "underpowered" and incorrectly modeled.

ack-ack

[1carbine]

Thats the 75mm HE cannon on the B-25H

He said openers not incinerators 

[Larry]

Well, lets see, 38J has 4 50 cals and 1 20mm, pony has 4-6 50 cals, they should be able to do the same thing to a plane if your only using 50's. Trust me, the 50's don't do damage like they should, I'll be lucky if I even hit the pilot in one pass. Bombers I can understand, fighters like a 109 should be down within 20-30 rounds.

Last few months I played I flew the A-20 almost exclusively and had absolutely no problem taking down planes with one pass. In fact the first few times I laughed because it seemed so easy. As akak stated its not the guns its you. If you're flying a pony and not shooting at the distance your convergence is set then you're just wasting ammo.

[THRASH99]

Last few months I played I flew the A-20 almost exclusively and had absolutely no problem taking down planes with one pass. In fact the first few times I laughed because it seemed so easy. As akak stated its not the guns its you. If you're flying a pony and not shooting at the distance your convergence is set then you're just wasting ammo.

Uhhh.... your flying something that has 8 50 cals and can obliterate anything that comes in its path. We're talking about 4, if your seeing a crap load of hit sprites on the aircraft and it's not doing anything, how can it be you? Since ack is saying that he has no problem shooting people down with the 50's on his 38, what I want to know, is what's the difference between the 50's on the 51 and 38? If they're the same, why don't they act the same? Now if ack is telling me that I never prove anything right, I'd like to see some videos of him in a 51 and 38 and you tell me how many hits it takes to kill a fighter. Plus, it doesn't matter where you place the bullets on the plane, its bound to do some sort of damage even if you don't aim for soft spots on the plane. If you post up pictures, that really tells me nothing and doesn't show me much, what I need to see are some videos that show everything that's happening.

[Ack-Ack]

Uhhh.... your flying something that has 8 50 cals and can obliterate anything that comes in its path. We're talking about 4, if your seeing a crap load of hit sprites on the aircraft and it's not doing anything, how can it be you? Since ack is saying that he has no problem shooting people down with the 50's on his 38, what I want to know, is what's the difference between the 50's on the 51 and 38?

There is no difference between the .50 caliber machine guns on the P-38 (any of them), the Hellcat, Wilcat, Corsair, Thunderbolt, Mustang, and any other USAAF/USMC/USN/RAF plane that used .50 caliber machine guns.  You have failed againt to show that there is anything wrong.  We've explained to you repeatedly but for some reason you do not want to accept it and totally ignore it.  Ignore it all you want but it's not going to change the basic truth, it's not the machine gun or the game that is the problem.

If they're the same, why don't they act the same?

How do they act different? 

Now if ack is telling me that I never prove anything right, I'd like to see some videos of him in a 51 and 38 and you tell me how many hits it takes to kill a fighter. Plus, it doesn't matter where you place the bullets on the plane, its bound to do some sort of damage even if you don't aim for soft spots on the plane. If you post up pictures, that really tells me nothing and doesn't show me much, what I need to see are some videos that show everything that's happening.

It does matter where you place bullets.  For example, if you're in a P-51B and attacking an IL-2 and aim at the fuselage area, especially around the cockpit area, you're basically wasting bullets as the fuselage armor is going to soak up the .50 cals and the cockpit is also armored.  Not a good place to aim for a quick kill.  However, due to it's construction and the stress the weight from all the armor on the fuselage put on the wing root and tail section, these are structral weak points and takes less rounds to cause critical damage.

Against any plane, aim directly at the cockpit and you'll usually kill the pilot in a single burst.  In bombers, target the engines and they catch fire easily...you get the point.

its bound to do some sort of damage even if you don't aim for soft spots on the plane

That's a waste of ammo.  Firing at an area where the plane is armored and can absorb more damage is not the best place to aim for when there is a softer area to aim for, it's just common sense. 


Since it is you that is claiming the problem is with the .50 calibers machine guns, it is you that has to provide the proof which you've repeatedly failed to do.  Those videos on YouTube is not evidence and HiTech won't even give them the time of day to watch them.  However, there is a test you can do in game and you can post the results to see.  This can be done offline or online but I would recommend offline so you won't be disturbed while doing these tests or you can go to the TA and do it.

1) Enter the Hanger
2) Pick the P-51B and set the convergence for all guns to 450 yards
3) Take off
4) Bring up the target using the .target command and set the range to 450 yards (.target 450)

Now you'll see a big bullseye target in front of your plane at 450 yards (the convergence point we set earlier)

5) Fire your guns and take note of the grouping and press Alt+S for a screenshot
6) Type .target 800 to set the bullseye at 800 yards
7) Fire your guns and take note of the grouping and press Alt+S

Notice how the grouping is more spread out than the one at 450 yards?  This is because the rounds are hitting past the convergence point and hitting the target all over in a wider area.  Sure, you're hitting more area but you're not hitting with the same force as you would if you hit in a single concentrated area.  Now for the last part of the test.

8) Set the target to 200 yards (.target 200)
9) Fire all of your guns, note the grouping and press Alt+S

Again, comparing this grouping at 200 yards with the one from 450yds and 800yds, it shows a spread similiar to that of the grouping at 800yds.  This is because instead of hitting past the convergence point, you're hitting the target before the convergence point so the rounds are still spread out in a wider grouping than they would be at the convergence.

Hopefully, after doing these tests you'll realize the importance of hitting at the convergence and then can apply that to your gunnery.


ack-ack

[Larry]

Uhhh.... your flying something that has 8 50 cals and can obliterate anything that comes in its path. We're talking about 4, if your seeing a crap load of hit sprites on the aircraft and it's not doing anything, how can it be you? Since ack is saying that he has no problem shooting people down with the 50's on his 38, what I want to know, is what's the difference between the 50's on the 51 and 38? If they're the same, why don't they act the same? Now if ack is telling me that I never prove anything right, I'd like to see some videos of him in a 51 and 38 and you tell me how many hits it takes to kill a fighter. Plus, it doesn't matter where you place the bullets on the plane, its bound to do some sort of damage even if you don't aim for soft spots on the plane. If you post up pictures, that really tells me nothing and doesn't show me much, what I need to see are some videos that show everything that's happening.

No the A20 has six forward firing machine guns. From what it sounds like all you do is spray the enemy aircraft and expect it to go down instead of concentrating a burst on a single point. What I would like is to see some film of you and one of these instances where you think the enemy should have gone down and didn't or took longer then you would have liked.

[SlapShot]

As I stated, I fly .50 cal planes 99% of the time.

Of that 99%, I fly the FM2 90% of the time which only has 4 .50 cals with convergence at 400.

Any plane that I can get guns on from 400 on in ... I have no trouble ripping them to shreds and rather quickly. The other 10% I fly the F6-F with 6 .50 cals also set at 400 and it is almost funny to see how quickly the 6 .50 cals can take apart ANY plane/bomber.

What most people don't understand when using a .50 cal plane is that you cannot fire in short bursts (like when using cannons). When I shifted from a cannon bird to the .50 cal planes, I was having problems taking planes down. I was firing in conservative short bursts expecting cannon results. As soon as I forced myself to hold the trigger down longer when on target, planes started to fall out of the air rather easily.

[sandwich]

They do.  Would you like me to post a series of films with 6+ kills using only .50 calibers and still landing with over a 1000 rounds left?

The reason why it's taking you a lot of rounds to kill something with .50 cals is your own gunnery.  It's not the game, I don't know how many times myself or others have to tell you this.  You have not provided one single bit of evidence to show how the .50 cals work but if you were to take the time and search the forums, you'll see how this issue has already been addressed and proven that there is nothing wrong with the .50s.

Your problem is:
1)  You are not hitting at the convergence point
2)  You are not hitting vital areas on the plane (aim for structural weak points (i.e. wing root, tail section), engine, and/or cockpit))
3)  You are not firing at a plane at a slight angle when approaching from a six.  You will hit with less rounds and do less damage from a pure six position, off set your approach where you come in at an angle to their six position, you'll have more of the fuselage to hit with your rounds, increasing the likelihood of scoring a critical hit.


Once you get over your hubris and realize that problem isn't with the game, you'll see a dramatic improvement in your abilities.  If you don't, you'll never improve beyond the level you're already at and you'll continue to make posts with incorrect assertions on how the game is broken.

ack-ack

Can you post some film ack ack?

I always enjoy watching film from someone who knows what theyre doing.

[321BAR]

50 cals are screwed up right now as far as I know. You can be in a pony, hit a fighter over 100 times from a range of 400-600 out and he doesn't flame up or take serious damage like he should. Take a look at AH 50 cal, then take a look at 50 cal gun footage from WWII, here's the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP-_cVgKSG0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhWelWiqfvI&feature=related

Both are extremly different, 50 cal actually does something in this video then what they do in AH.

i'm sorry but it's just you... although my zeke is my ride, I fly the P51D more often than the zero for good reason. It is a better plane with better guns... the 6 .50s can take anything out if fired correctly. I usually take 3-5 fighters out in a P51D before i go land and rearm. The only reason my K/D in the pony is so low is because i fly the P51 in poor fight situations along with good situations. I'd be the one to up a P51 at a base being attacked by 5 cons because at the time it would only be the best choice for me. But there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the .50 caliber M2 Brownings

[THRASH99]

i'm sorry but it's just you... although my zeke is my ride, I fly the P51D more often than the zero for good reason. It is a better plane with better guns... the 6 .50s can take anything out if fired correctly. I usually take 3-5 fighters out in a P51D before i go land and rearm. The only reason my K/D in the pony is so low is because i fly the P51 in poor fight situations along with good situations. I'd be the one to up a P51 at a base being attacked by 5 cons because at the time it would only be the best choice for me. But there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the .50 caliber M2 Brownings

Pffft, yeah, it's me alright. Can't be me if I'm lighting a guy up with a load of 50s and there not doing anything   I sure like to know how it's me if the 50's aren't doing anything to the enemy. I set my convergence from 450 to about 550. I don't open fire till about 600 shows up, open fire, tons of hit sprites, and nothing happens within 100 rounds. I don't even see any damage on the plane once I pass him. Go keep wishing for the M-18 bar, sure it'll work sometime or later.                                              

[Ack-Ack]

Pffft, yeah, it's me alright. Can't be me if I'm lighting a guy up with a load of 50s and there not doing anything   I sure like to know how it's me if the 50's aren't doing anything to the enemy. I set my convergence to 450- to about 550. I don't open fire till about 600 shows up, open fire, tons of hit sprites, and nothing happens within 100 rounds. I don't even see any damage on the plane once I pass him. Go keep wishing for the M-18 bar, sure it'll work sometime or later.                                              

We've explained numerous times what is happening and why but you refuse to listen because to do so would force you to recognize an inconvenient truth which is that the problem isn't with the game.

The part in your comment that I've bolded is the reason why your gunnery skills are so crappy.  You are hitting your target past the convergence point, and as already explained, it's not going to have the same impact force as it would if you were to hit at the convergence point.

If you feel (no matter how incorrect you are) that the .50 caliber machine guns in game are somehow not modeled correctly, why don't you show some data to back up your highly incorrect claims?  So far all of your proof has amounted to a couple of YouTube videos (/snicker) and some of your own personal stories.  To paraphrase the old lady from the Wendy's commercials...Where's the proof?

If you're going to claim that something is broken in the game, the burden of proof is on you to prove that there is something wrong.  You have utterly failed (which a characteristic of your other 'game is broken' threads) to show that the .50 caliber machine guns have any issues.  On the other side of the coin, myself and others have patiently explained to you what is happening and even provided some tips to help your utterly craptastic gunnery skills but you insist on blaming the game instead of realizing the problem is purely with you and only you. 

Until you realize the problem is you, you're just gonna be cannon fodder for me and others.

ack-ack

[THRASH99]

 


Since it is you that is claiming the problem is with the .50 calibers machine guns, it is you that has to provide the proof which you've repeatedly failed to do.  Those videos on YouTube is not evidence and HiTech won't even give them the time of day to watch them.  However, there is a test you can do in game and you can post the results to see.  This can be done offline or online but I would recommend offline so you won't be disturbed while doing these tests or you can go to the TA and do it.

1) Enter the Hanger
2) Pick the P-51B and set the convergence for all guns to 450 yards
3) Take off
4) Bring up the target using the .target command and set the range to 450 yards (.target 450)

Now you'll see a big bullseye target in front of your plane at 450 yards (the convergence point we set earlier)

5) Fire your guns and take note of the grouping and press Alt+S for a screenshot
6) Type .target 800 to set the bullseye at 800 yards
7) Fire your guns and take note of the grouping and press Alt+S

Notice how the grouping is more spread out than the one at 450 yards?  This is because the rounds are hitting past the convergence point and hitting the target all over in a wider area.  Sure, you're hitting more area but you're not hitting with the same force as you would if you hit in a single concentrated area.  Now for the last part of the test.

8) Set the target to 200 yards (.target 200)
9) Fire all of your guns, note the grouping and press Alt+S

Again, comparing this grouping at 200 yards with the one from 450yds and 800yds, it shows a spread similiar to that of the grouping at 800yds.  This is because instead of hitting past the convergence point, you're hitting the target before the convergence point so the rounds are still spread out in a wider grouping than they would be at the convergence.

Hopefully, after doing these tests you'll realize the importance of hitting at the convergence and then can apply that to your gunnery.


ack-ack

I've provided prove time and time again. Youtube or not you still say I failed to show, but yet it sounds like you take a look at it for one second or try to get to point with out reading the whole thing and make up an excuse for the comment you think will be right and prove me wrong. Video or website I gave, shows anything and everything I'm talking about. Did you even see the first video of the 50s when the pilot strafed the oil tanks, I saw about 20-30 rounds at the most go to it and blow it up. In AH it takes more than it should to blow it up, tested it in offline and it was about a 2-3 second burst from 4 50 cals. Another reason I can say the 50s are wrong, I was flying in a pony in the MA, came across a Ki-84, got on his 6, hit him a load of times all over the fuselage, and he didn't catch fire, blow up, or take any damage what so ever (this was about a 2-3 second burst.) As you look in the videos I posted, 50's should as you should know be doing more damage, you should even know that since your flying a 50 cal plane.

[THRASH99]

We've explained numerous times what is happening and why but you refuse to listen because to do so would force you to recognize an inconvenient truth which is that the problem isn't with the game.

The part in your comment that I've bolded is the reason why your gunnery skills are so crappy.  You are hitting your target past the convergence point, and as already explained, it's not going to have the same impact force as it would if you were to hit at the convergence point.

If you feel (no matter how incorrect you are) that the .50 caliber machine guns in game are somehow not modeled correctly, why don't you show some data to back up your highly incorrect claims?  So far all of your proof has amounted to a couple of YouTube videos (/snicker) and some of your own personal stories.  To paraphrase the old lady from the Wendy's commercials...Where's the proof?

If you're going to claim that something is broken in the game, the burden of proof is on you to prove that there is something wrong.  You have utterly failed (which a characteristic of your other 'game is broken' threads) to show that the .50 caliber machine guns have any issues.  On the other side of the coin, myself and others have patiently explained to you what is happening and even provided some tips to help your utterly craptastic gunnery skills but you insist on blaming the game instead of realizing the problem is purely with you and only you. 

Until you realize the problem is you, you're just gonna be cannon fodder for me and others.

ack-ack

Here, since you keep saying I need "prove", just read about the M2 50 cal mg.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning_machine_gun Talks about it being used in WWII alot, hopefully this should help

[Ack-Ack]

Jeebus...now you're pulling out Wiki as proof.

/face palm


Again, show how the .50 calibers are less than lethal in this game.  Please provide some data (no YouTube or Wiki), I mean actual ballistic reports, etc.


ack-ack