Author Topic: Icons  (Read 8006 times)

Offline TUK

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Re: Icons
« Reply #120 on: July 07, 2010, 02:37:07 PM »
Short, tall icons,  their all good... :rock

LMAO!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 02:39:23 PM by TUK »
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Offline daddog

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Re: Icons
« Reply #121 on: July 07, 2010, 02:39:23 PM »
Quote
But Squire sparked my memory and a concept i've seen used before. It had to do with Icons getting "lighter" or more "faint" depending on how long you were looking at them.
I always thought that was kinda cool. A few years back I tried WWIIOL and they had it setup that way in the air. I had it in my head HTC tried it very briefly years ago, but I was probably thinking of WWIIOL. Would be a neat option I would like to try, but not one the CM's have.

Pretty funny Squire. :)
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Offline Boxboy

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Re: Icons
« Reply #122 on: July 07, 2010, 04:18:34 PM »
This isn't directed at you specifically Boxboy, but I'd like to point out that, as someone who's been an admin for many games (CoD:UO, MoH:AA, Jedi Academy among others) as well as being a former beta tester for many of the current popular MMOs (WoW, LotRO, Age of Conan, PotBS etc) and admin'd several forums over the years, rarely do the people who agree with a setup or topic of discussion support said setup or discussion with the same fervor as those who are against it. Just because the "yays" don't make as much of a concentrated effort in a forum debate defending their position on an issue as the "nays" do, doesn't mean that the nays win the debate or that there are greater numbers "against" rather than "for"...it just means that some people are content with things as they are or have no opinion one way or the other and feel no need to defend their position to those who can not "agree to disagree"

Wow talk about a convient arguement LOL, I am right because the "silent majority" is for me.  Maybe the "Silent Majority" hate short icons but just don't bother to post?  BTW I can point to several failed games in the "computer gaming world" because they refused to listen to their player base. Everquest comes to mind, they were fine while no competition existed but when WoW came out they started to die, BTW my son worked for Vivendi at the time WoW came out.


Thanks for the headsup DD since you think ignoring the problem will make it go away, no sense in talking to you any further or having anything to do with anything you run.
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Offline Otaz

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Re: Icons
« Reply #123 on: July 07, 2010, 05:59:47 PM »
Wow talk about a convient arguement LOL, I am right because the "silent majority" is for me.  Maybe the "Silent Majority" hate short icons but just don't bother to post?  BTW I can point to several failed games in the "computer gaming world" because they refused to listen to their player base. Everquest comes to mind, they were fine while no competition existed but when WoW came out they started to die, BTW my son worked for Vivendi at the time WoW came out.


Thanks for the headsup DD since you think ignoring the problem will make it go away, no sense in talking to you any further or having anything to do with anything you run.

I never said "I" was right about anything or that I had the "silent masses" on my side. I said "I" had no issue with the devs or CMs changing settings (and hopefully with the intent of finding/fixing balance or enhancing gameplay). That isn't a right or wrong view, it's just stating my own tolerance of change.

As for the "silent masses", I used that phrase because its rather unlikely that "all" players actually post on any game's main forums, in fact, I'd bet most don't even read, let alone post on, forums other than to look for hints, tips, and tech support. So it's humorous when the "nay sayers" claim that they have the majority when its more likely the majority probably doesn't even know there's a debate, or even care. And I never said anyone was wrong for their opinions either, I respect and will defend anyone's right to their opinions...but I will (and did) take issue with those making threats if they don't get their way. That's a confrontational/bully tactic and only serves to make those that can make the changes, decide against doing so for no other reason than they are now angry. "You attract more flies with honey...." and that whole bit.

As for your point that games like Everquest died because the developers didn't listen to their subscribers...it "may" have had some effect, but its more likely that people played the games well beyond their end game content and were bored, and the developers ran out of ideas for new content without it being "rinse and repeat", and they were probably ready for the "next new" thing anyways. It happens to ALL games (and even technology things like cellphones and DVD players) eventually, and especially when developers hit on something new and unique like Blizzard did with some of the features in WoW. Now it seems about every MMORPG has WoW influenced parts to it such as the talent tree system, and even some that preceded WoW have adopted WoW features (Star Wars Galaxies for example). Games are like technology, when the next newest idea hits, everyone floods to it until the next newest thing comes along..and when that happens...the old technology fades out over time (VCRs, Super 8mm, or 8 tracks anyone?).


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Offline Boxboy

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Re: Icons
« Reply #124 on: July 07, 2010, 06:35:32 PM »
Well i hear what you are saying, but I just cannot fly short/no icons so I am not trying to "bully" anyone I am just unable to play due a set of rules that opt me out the mix and if anything I am whinning about that.  I have now made a decision to drop FSO from list of things to do and have withdrawn from my squad to keep them out of the situation since I think they still want to fly FSO.  I never complained about which plane I got or which side or what the assignment was but this short icon thing is impossible for me to fly and be anything but a target drone. Therefore I am out, I have enjoyed most of the FSO's I have flown up until this it is too bad but if this is where it is going I have no choice but to quit.
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Offline Shifty

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Re: Icons
« Reply #125 on: July 07, 2010, 06:46:16 PM »
Well i hear what you are saying, but I just cannot fly short/no icons so I am not trying to "bully" anyone I am just unable to play due a set of rules that opt me out the mix and if anything I am whinning about that.  I have now made a decision to drop FSO from list of things to do and have withdrawn from my squad to keep them out of the situation since I think they still want to fly FSO.  I never complained about which plane I got or which side or what the assignment was but this short icon thing is impossible for me to fly and be anything but a target drone. Therefore I am out, I have enjoyed most of the FSO's I have flown up until this it is too bad but if this is where it is going I have no choice but to quit.

It's only for two more weeks why quit the FSO and your squad over a temporary setting?

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Offline Otaz

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Re: Icons
« Reply #126 on: July 07, 2010, 07:14:53 PM »
Well i hear what you are saying, but I just cannot fly short/no icons so I am not trying to "bully" anyone I am just unable to play due a set of rules that opt me out the mix and if anything I am whinning about that.  I have now made a decision to drop FSO from list of things to do and have withdrawn from my squad to keep them out of the situation since I think they still want to fly FSO.  I never complained about which plane I got or which side or what the assignment was but this short icon thing is impossible for me to fly and be anything but a target drone. Therefore I am out, I have enjoyed most of the FSO's I have flown up until this it is too bad but if this is where it is going I have no choice but to quit.

Believe me, I know about being a target drone. I joke about being our squad's punching bag all the time cause I don't stand a chance against any of them, plus I get beat up regularly in the MAs as well.  :P But I have gotten to know some of the guys in my squad and despite getting my arse handed to me over and over, they are really good guys and I expect sooner or later (probably more later than anything LOL) I will learn how to fight with them ( or at least get a lucky shot once in a while.  :rofl)

But I honestly hate to see that you are willing to even quit even your squad over this issue. Ok, if you want to withdraw from being in FSO's (temporarily I hope) because you don't agree with the settings, I can understand that...but its a bit drastic to quit your squad as well, isn't it? Not everyone is going to agree on things, even within squads, player associations, guilds, etc...but if they are good people and good friends, they won't mind the difference of opinions.

"People who mind, don't matter...and people that matter, don't mind."  :salute


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Offline Viper61

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Re: Icons
« Reply #127 on: July 08, 2010, 02:19:32 PM »
Last Night 68Hawk ran the Frame 02 Snap shot with "no ICON's".  Having never flown or fought that way I figured I should at least try.  <S> 68Hawk and the CM's that put on these events.

Given this lengthy discussion thought I would add to it again.

Flying without ICON's was the worst experience I have ever had in AHII and I've been here for a few days at this point.  It was wasn't fun.  And I can tell you I won't fly in another event in which ICON's are turned off completely.  Not exactly the discussion here as we are discussing "short" ICON's.  But there are similarities.

The AXIS players (my side) did what we could do by selecting bright or flashy skins and staying together at least until we engaged the enemy.  After that however there wasn't a good way at all to distinguish friend from foe.  Understand this was a 20 on 20 AC meeting engagement Co-Alt.  German vs. Russian iron.  At one point I chased a fellow for about 60 seconds before I could tell for sure that he was a friendly, or at least I believe he was and let him go.  With my computer capability I had to close closer than 200' before I could really tell what i was looking at.  And then I wasn't completely sure so i elected not to pull the trigger.  I am sure that if I could closed to visual range of the skin I could have distinguished him for sure.

6K ICON's for the "Squad" level events is the way to go and I am sure of it now.  Make adjustments to the settings in the other events and allow personnel to experience it first hand.  I encourage all to experience it first hand.  Making adjustments to the FSO ICON range isn't the way to go in my opinion.

 


Offline InCrypt

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Re: Icons
« Reply #128 on: July 08, 2010, 03:54:55 PM »
Do NOT TELL ME WHAT CAN’T BE DONE!

I am legally blind, with 20/400 + vision corrected (with glasses)! I cannot drive, I have to use a 22” screen and sit 12 inches from it in order to fly. To see a non/low icon dot I have to move my face to within 1” of the screen (I know I’m too close when my nose touches). To take a shot on a target 400 Meters away I have to use the Zoom function so the piper fills the screen and I still have to lean forward from time to time. But I do it all anyway.
Is it more difficult to fly without the crutch of icons? YES! Is it next to impossible to determine range and closure? Absolutely! Do I fair better with Icons set at longer (3k+) distances. Sure thing! Would I like to see the Icon ranges set to back to 3k (IMHO about what they should be for a 20/20 pilot)? Your damd Right. But will I ever take my ball and go home because the game is not what I like. NOT A CHANCE IN HELL. It’s a commitment gentleman, and we’ve got to stand tall. The CM’s will try different stuff as they become available. And you can’t judge success or failure of something from only one data point. I think we can ride this one out – now that EVERYONE is fully aware of the settings change – and see how it goes for the rest of the frame.

This month I have volunteered to plan the missions for my squad, and Frame 1 was my very first ever. The professional military pilots of my squad have told me that my mission brief package was one of the most professional ever, and my only lament was that because I missed the Icon setting change my wonderful plan was not fully realized. I attribute the fact that I missed the Icon setting change, and my inability to infer its consequences, to my lack of experience in this facet of the FSO. But I will NOT make that mistake this FSO. I expect there to be a lot of NOE raids due to the <500 no icon rule (a bit generous I think), but I will take that into account when I plan the next mission.

And remember, the less you have the better you become.

-- We who have done so much, with so little, are now fully qualified to do anything with nothing at all.

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Since I have no teacher I know I'm still working on being ready...

Offline Otaz

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Re: Icons
« Reply #129 on: July 08, 2010, 03:58:48 PM »

And remember, the less you have the better you become.

-- We who have done so much, with so little, are now fully qualified to do anything with nothing at all.



That's an awesome point of view.  :aok  

:salute InCrypt


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Offline USRanger

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Re: Icons
« Reply #130 on: July 08, 2010, 04:08:34 PM »
1- I'm in the other camp.  I love flying with no icons.  Maybe it's not for FSO, but I really do enjoy it.

2- Wowzers, I can't believe this thread is still going! :eek:
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Offline thorsim

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Re: Icons
« Reply #131 on: July 08, 2010, 05:21:04 PM »
 :salute incrypt ...

imo  :aok on no icons ...

it has long been well established that these kinds of settings can level the playing field,
and it is refreshing to focus on the SA component of ACM rather than the many other often questioned
aspects of this video game.

+S+

t

 
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Quote from: any number of idiots here
blah blah Blah
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Offline daddog

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Re: Icons
« Reply #132 on: July 08, 2010, 05:43:19 PM »
Quote
The CM’s will try different stuff as they become available. And you can’t judge success or failure of something from only one data point. I think we can ride this one out – now that EVERYONE is fully aware of the settings change – and see how it goes for the rest of the frame.
Thank you sir.  :salute
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Offline SlipKnt

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Re: Icons
« Reply #133 on: July 08, 2010, 05:50:20 PM »
Simply make them the same for both sides (1K, 3K, 6K...). 

When you are within 3K of a friendly and there is an enemy con in between with no icon, it is very easy to mistake that con for a friendly further away until you are becoming victim to a HO shot or a ram.  Point is that depth perception (especially for those with vision disabilities) is hard to judge.  Not impossible, but will more than likely end you up in the tower. 

Often times, our squad rehearses without icons so we can be preparred.  But...   ...IMO for FSO, considering the planning and grief that goes into getting upwards of 20 drunk guys in the cartoon air, the settings should be established for the year and stick with it. 

I would consider though, make the distance the same for both sides.   :pray

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Offline Edgar

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Re: Icons
« Reply #134 on: July 08, 2010, 08:22:56 PM »
Do NOT TELL ME WHAT CAN’T BE DONE!

I am legally blind, with 20/400 + vision corrected (with glasses)! I cannot drive, I have to use a 22” screen and sit 12 inches from it in order to fly. To see a non/low icon dot I have to move my face to within 1” of the screen (I know I’m too close when my nose touches). To take a shot on a target 400 Meters away I have to use the Zoom function so the piper fills the screen and I still have to lean forward from time to time. But I do it all anyway.
Is it more difficult to fly without the crutch of icons? YES! Is it next to impossible to determine range and closure? Absolutely! Do I fair better with Icons set at longer (3k+) distances. Sure thing! Would I like to see the Icon ranges set to back to 3k (IMHO about what they should be for a 20/20 pilot)? Your damd Right. But will I ever take my ball and go home because the game is not what I like. NOT A CHANCE IN HELL. It’s a commitment gentleman, and we’ve got to stand tall. The CM’s will try different stuff as they become available. And you can’t judge success or failure of something from only one data point. I think we can ride this one out – now that EVERYONE is fully aware of the settings change – and see how it goes for the rest of the frame.

This month I have volunteered to plan the missions for my squad, and Frame 1 was my very first ever. The professional military pilots of my squad have told me that my mission brief package was one of the most professional ever, and my only lament was that because I missed the Icon setting change my wonderful plan was not fully realized. I attribute the fact that I missed the Icon setting change, and my inability to infer its consequences, to my lack of experience in this facet of the FSO. But I will NOT make that mistake this FSO. I expect there to be a lot of NOE raids due to the <500 no icon rule (a bit generous I think), but I will take that into account when I plan the next mission.

And remember, the less you have the better you become.

-- We who have done so much, with so little, are now fully qualified to do anything with nothing at all.



The best damn post I have seen in some time!

 :salute
Edgar
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