The Aces High War Doctrine

[xNOVAx]

Wow, talk about off the reservation. Sorry Nova but...   Team Fortress only has a structured and fair combat system if there are squad matches, otherwise it's a frag fest.

To compare squad vs squad duels in Team Fortress to the TDM type of game play seen in the AH main arenas is way out in left field.

Strangely enough, in your diatribe you failed to note that the same "team play effort" occurs in the AH Squad Dueling League, FSO and some other special events where the admins attempt to create "balance" with the available equipment so that more "player skill" and "team strategy" will determine the winner rather than how much more uber their equipment is over their opponent.

So you're saying Team Fortress (or similar games) don't give each side an equal shot at winning? How so?

I dont see making a comparison way out in left field at all.. Both sides are able to choose what they want to fight with, but you have to work as a team to win.. A horde of LA7's isin't going to capture a base, and neither is a horde of c47's, just like a horde of heavy's (most likely) isn't going to capture the flag in Team Fortress. And I wasn't comparing the MA's to Team Fortress.. I was pointing out the differences between their gameplay structures and how Team Fortress does a better job at forcing a fight to achieve a common goal..

As far as the SDL, FSO, and other special events.. That requires me to set aside my time specifically to play those events.. While I like them, more often than not I don't have the time to participate which is disappointing time and time again that I miss them.. If there were 'mock' events like that going on 24/7, that would be awesome.. Thats basically all I'm saying here..

[bustr]

NOVA and gyrene,

Both of you are correct in your objective observations. The structural assertions by NOVA are misplaced due to their purely subjective personal nature. Aces High stopped challenging him, or he it.

The more accomplished players in Aces High are often people who seek novel spontanious complexity as its own reward without understanding their motivations. For NOVA becoming one of the permier sticks in the game and then his membership in the muppets over a short period is to be respected and a hallmark of such players. But, with the rapid rise in personal fortune is lost the 'Novel Spontainious Complexity" as it's own reward. It is here where the dissatisfaction creeps in with the systemic methodology for reward chosen by the game creators.

I will venture as soon as NOVA becomes one of the top predators in Team Fortress he will have to look elsewhere for "Novel Spontainious Complexity" to challenge and reward him.

[TnDep]

From all that I'm reading I have to throw my opinion in here about this one concept Nova has.


Having an achieveable goal to work for that is reachable within min. 6 hours to max. 72 hours.  I'm just throwing out some numbers off the top of my head for the reason being, it would be nice to log on and see immediate gratification from your efforts towards the team/country. 

As long as I've been playing I've only seen 2 map wins and once I was on the winning team.  Now I'm sure it's happen a lot more then that but I'm just saying at the time I was online playing.

It'd be nice to be able to win a map on average within 6 to 72 hours where you see your play is helping. 

Then the 25 perks per category would be worth it in my opinion if the time of winning the map was shortened. 

I might be off my rocker but this would increase combat/forced game play would it not?

[gyrene81]

So you're saying Team Fortress (or similar games) don't give each side an equal shot at winning? How so?

I dont see making a comparison way out in left field at all.. Both sides are able to choose what they want to fight with, but you have to work as a team to win.. A horde of LA7's isin't going to capture a base, and neither is a horde of c47's, just like a horde of heavy's (most likely) isn't going to capture the flag in Team Fortress. And I wasn't comparing the MA's to Team Fortress.. I was pointing out the differences between their gameplay structures and how Team Fortress does a better job at forcing a fight to achieve a common goal..

No, what I am saying is that AH gives each side an equal shot at winning just as much as Team Fortress or any other game does. It's the players and the choices they are given that dictates game play. Team Fortress doesn't allow several hundred people on a server, if it did I guarantee you would see a disproportionate number of heavies and snipers compared to the other classes unless whoever admins the server puts limitations on the classes. Take out the time limits, limited weapons/classes, increase the map size and the number of objectives and the team work aspect will break down except for short periods of time when a group of like minded individuals decides to work together just long enough to win the map. That same thing occurs in AH. In Team Fortress balance is achieved with side limitations and weapons/classes limitations...in the main arenas in AH weapons and side balance is achieved through ENY. As long as each side stays within certain ranges with the number of player there is no limit to what the players can use, but when the number of players on one side become substantially lower than the others ENY kicks in to restrict what equipment the factions with the higher player numbers can use. We may not like it when that happens, but we are all given the choice to either stay on the side we're on and deal with the ENY or change sides to balance the numbers out...most people just stay on the side their on and then post a bunch of ENY whines on the forums.

[Ardy123]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, what would happen if we had maps with...

1) Less airfileds
2) More 'strategic targets' which impacted game play, such as factories, cities which limited the number of planes/gvs could be upped at one time.
3) Smaller maps
4) More arenas, each with 200 players instead of 2 with as many as 400

Just an idea....

[xNOVAx]

Aces High stopped challenging him, or he it.

It's not that Aces High has stopped challenging me.. I see Aces high as extreemly challenging, and even being an experienced player I still get my bellybutton handed to me quite often.. It's simply that the challenge (IE dogfighting, bombing, GVing) serves no purpose in the grand scheme of the game.. There's no good or urgent reason to engage in any of those specific areas of the game except to engage just for the sake of soing so..

Your reward for dogfighting is killing another player, your reward for bombing is destroying meaningless objects, and your reward for GVing is to kill another player or destroying meaningless objects.. Every engagement unless there are EQUAL numbers on both sides is unfair, thus degrading the quality of gameplay. HiTech says the game is a big game of capture the flag, but I strongly disagree..

[gyrene81]

It's not that Aces High has stopped challenging me.. I see Aces high as extreemly challenging, and even being an experienced player I still get my bellybutton handed to me quite often.. It's simply that the challenge (IE dogfighting, bombing, GVing) serves no purpose in the grand scheme of the game.. There's no good or urgent reason to engage in any of those specific areas of the game except to engage just for the sake of soing so..

Your reward for dogfighting is killing another player, your reward for bombing is destroying meaningless objects, and your reward for GVing is to kill another player or destroying meaningless objects.. Every engagement unless there are EQUAL numbers on both sides is unfair degrading the quality of gameplay. HiTech says the game is a big game of capture the flag, but I strongly disagree..

It is a big game of capture the flag. In the main arenas it's just easy mode and players are left to do what they want, fight and talk stupid on 200 or win the war. The objectives for winning the war are spelled out in black and white somewhere around here, but there is nothing forcing anyone to win the war. Personally, capture the flag is boring as poop no matter what game it's played in, so are unlimited frag fests that's why I don't play first person shooters anymore.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, what would happen if we had maps with...

1) Less airfileds
2) More 'strategic targets' which impacted game play, such as factories, cities which limited the number of planes/gvs could be upped at one time.
3) Smaller maps
4) More arenas, each with 200 players instead of 2 with as many as 400

Just an idea....

That's an interesting idea Ardy. The only one can predict the outcome of is #4...and I quote:

Waaaaah the <insert arena name> is always full and I can't get in with my squad mates, why is the limit only 200? Why can't the limit be raised to 500? If HTC doesn't change this I'm taking my $15 somewhere else...

The forums would be full of such posts under the title "arena caps". The other ideas would definitely make things interesting.

[bustr]

.
It is here where the dissatisfaction creeps in with the systemic methodology for reward chosen by the game creators.

From NOVA...

HiTech says the game is a big game of capture the flag, but I strongly disagree..

Maybe I should respond in Swahili??????????????

[xNOVAx]

From NOVA...

HiTech says the game is a big game of capture the flag, but I strongly disagree..

Maybe I should respond in Swahili??????????????

What I was saying is that HiTech has chosen a reward that I really don't see as a reward because it almost never happens. Not because of my bias opinion of what a reward 'should be'

Whichever team actually wins the war (which is supposedly the reward from a 'macro' gameplay stand point) I'd say 99% of the time that team has an unfair numbers advantage and ENY does nothing to stop it.. Where is the reward in winning an unfair war seeing that this is a video game?

[bustr]

Ni hapa ambapo kutoridhika na creeps katika kwa njia ya utaratibu wa malipo wamechaguliwa na waumbaji wa mchezo.

[BillyD]

Well if y'all need a goal how about something like MW2? I'm sure Hitech and his staff would embrace this .....  If you land say 50 kills you get a B29 with a nook that takes out the whole map and a big flashing phalic symbol with your name flashes on everyones screen for 2 full minutes until the servers recover from their crash.......


OK I 

Now i wuit

 

[hitech]

Ni hapa ambapo kutoridhika na creeps katika kwa njia ya utaratibu wa malipo wamechaguliwa na waumbaji wa mchezo.

LOL You made my day.


HiTech

[jimson]

Both have an end game, I.E. win the war in AH.

If you felt it worthwhile to put an end game I.E. "win the war" in the main arenas, is there any way we could get some programming to allow the same thing in Axis v Allies arena?  

As it is right now, we don't have much control over what settings it will reset to, or which map, so it just ends up a mess after a reset.

[TheDudeDVant]

The biggest difference between TF and AH and the reason the teams have to fight?  The maps are smaller.. 8)

 

[bj229r]

Bustr uses too many big words