Does Text Chat need changing / The Cesspool

[Knite]

Here I go again with another wishlist "type" post, that I'm not putting in the wishlist because I am curious as to the discussion about it more than I am about actually requesting these changes.

I was thinking that our text/vox chat system could use a "sprucing up" to hopefully alleviate some of the cess-pool problems that hindered our larger arenas (before caps), as well as hopefully make it more newbie friendly as well as lowering the amount of "fluff" in text buffer. Here's what I propose and why...

#1. Rename 200 to "Off Topic" and make it "manually tunable" . - This channel appears to breed the most animosity of all of them. Rename it to "off topic", and require people to chose to enter it into Vox manually on each login (i.e. set it to a default channel every login).
#2. Add "Regional" channel - This Channel will be cross country, but in a localized area, approximately 3 times the size of the current "local" channel, but allowing chat across countries. This allows for cross country chat and commentary between direct combatants in adjoining bases/sectors. (Basically a mini/localized 200)
#3. Tweak "Local" channel - Increase range to similar to radar range or larger, 20-30 miles, if it is not that large already.
#4. Remove the difference between "tower" chat and "Local/Regional" chat -  Make them one in the same. This would allow you to hear needs and requests while in tower and hangar from the local fighting force in a defending mode, or better co-ordination before take-off. Also in the case of Regional chat, allow for communication between you and your enemy if you both got towered out by mutual destruction.
#5. Rename "Country" channel to "Command" - Hopefully adjusting the name of this channel helps define the purpose of this channel a little better. Allows for a "same country shout out" to request help from other areas, but at the same time, makes it easier to "tune out" if a "fluff" conversation occurs, as the new "local" channel would received increased importance due to the larger range and ability to read/hear from the ground (tower/hangar)
#6. Tune channels by "name", not number - This is primarily for "user friendlyness", and information... Would allow a player to create a channel such as "A15-A22", for a specific campaign or mission (Yes, I realize there is a mission channel as well).
#7. Create a new chat button - Allows for a 2nd set of 4 tunable vox channels. Such as the ' key, which would allow for tunable ', CTRL-', ALT-' and SHIFT-'
#8. Make channel 1 - Help default for new accounts This may be done already, but if not, I think would be a great start. Also, make this channel broadcast cross arena and cross country so that anyone tuned could help answer a question. There should be a limit as to how often you can chat to it however, such as 5 lines every 10 minutes or something, to avoid spamming.

The overall ideas behind these changes is that it would make chatting/communications more of a "local" affair, which makes it easier to "peer pressure" sheriff our own, and is hopefully friendlier to the new player and old. I.e. It's easier to sift through and react to messages from the closest 70 people to you, than the entire 400 in the arena, ESPECIALLY when you are possibly/likely in visual range. My thinking is that this would be less intimidating to a new player, as the text buffer wouldn't get completely full of nonsensical insults and politics, as well as allowing them to talk to those people he can physically see around him better. Also would make it feel more "close" to those of us NOT new, as communications would be more regionalized, than just the mass "communications blast" we can see now. My hope is that this would also help alleviate/avoid some of the "cesspool" problem that HTC has stated time and time again that pops up when arenas start getting large. It's almost similar to creating "zones" or "instances" of other MMOs without fundamentally altering the game itself.

What do you all think? Would this help? Any pieces you like/dislike? Is this a solution in search for a problem?
And yes, before anyone calls me out on this, it absolutely was inspired by recent conversations about Arena Caps, but IMO, this could help irregardless.
Thanks for your time.

[Yeager]

Your ideas are good and all, but I don't see how they do anything that squelch doesn't already do.  Unless I am missing something...

[Killer91]

+1 I like it 

And there's one thing i'd like to add to this.     .squelch range vox 

[APDrone]

#1:  200 is already manually tunable.  You have to make a conscious effort to dial it in.  Granted, you don't have to dial it in each time you log on, but forcing all those that enjoy it to do so is generating a lot of unnecessary work that would be considered a pain. ( I, personally, don't tune in 200 due to the amount of garbage that transpires )
#2:  Good idea.
#4:  I think you're referring to 'Range' and 'Tower' chat.  I can see where Range should be expanded to include those inside the tower facilities ( hangar, tower, o-club ) of bases in the 'Range' area.
#5:  'Command' channel is probably not a good replacement.  Especially when somebody uses the channel and then finds out they really don't 'command' anything.

#6:  Can you imagine the communication headaches trying to relay the proper spelling for a custom named channel?  Numbers are far easier.

My $.02

[Knite]

#1:  200 is already manually tunable.  You have to make a conscious effort to dial it in.  Granted, you don't have to dial it in each time you log on, but forcing all those that enjoy it to do so is generating a lot of unnecessary work that would be considered a pain. ( I, personally, don't tune in 200 due to the amount of garbage that transpires )

My suggestion of manually tuning it was supposed to be a pain.    I.e., allow those who want to have it still have it, but overall make it far more convinient (incentive) to use the "regional" chat instead. (My original idea was to do away with 200 completely, but I felt this was a comprimise to allow it but hopefully curb the negative somewhat it seems to constantly have in it.)

#2:  Good idea.
#4:  I think you're referring to 'Range' and 'Tower' chat.  I can see where Range should be expanded to include those inside the tower facilities ( hangar, tower, o-club ) of bases in the 'Range' area.

Thanks. And yes, I think you understand perfectly what I meant. =)

#5:  'Command' channel is probably not a good replacement.  Especially when somebody uses the channel and then finds out they really don't 'command' anything.

I wavered a few times on what to call it. Any suggestions? I just think "country" confers a too "informal" connotation, and really the idea here is to get more usage in the Regional and Local channels, and "command" was all I could think of. Maybe HeadQuarters?

#6:  Can you imagine the communication headaches trying to relay the proper spelling for a custom named channel?  Numbers are far easier.

I'd think it's just as easy to type in "Meet me in ShootGVs" as it is to "Meet me in 183", so perhaps I am just not sure what makes it more difficult? I was thinking there would be benfeits of having a chat room name with a "description" of what that room is about as opposed to just randomly trying to chose an untaken number.

Thanks a lot for all of your replies so far! 

[Ghosth]

I'm going to step way out on a limb here. First off I truly believe most problems are caused by people. In which case nothing you do with the hardware is really going to change anything.

Here I go again with another wishlist "type" post, that I'm not putting in the wishlist because I am curious as to the discussion about it more than I am about actually requesting these changes.

I was thinking that our text/vox chat system could use a "sprucing up" to hopefully alleviate some of the cess-pool problems that hindered our larger arenas (before caps), as well as hopefully make it more newbie friendly as well as lowering the amount of "fluff" in text buffer. Here's what I propose and why...

#1. Rename 200 to "Off Topic" and make it "manually tunable" . - This channel appears to breed the most animosity of all of them. Rename it to "off topic", and require people to chose to enter it into Vox manually on each login (i.e. set it to a default channel every login).

Why? What does that accomplish? It has to be "tuned" now, what does making people tune it every time accomplish that it isn't already doing?
#2. Add "Regional" channel - This Channel will be cross country, but in a localized area, approximately 3 times the size of the current "local" channel, but allowing chat across countries. This allows for cross country chat and commentary between direct combatants in adjoining bases/sectors. (Basically a mini/localized 200)

Ok, you just turned the room/range channel into the open channel. You'll see on this channel what you would have seen on the other channel. To what purpose?
#3. Tweak "Local" channel - Increase range to similar to radar range or larger, 20-30 miles, if it is not that large already.
#4. Remove the difference between "tower" chat and "Local/Regional" chat -  Make them one in the same. This would allow you to hear needs and requests while in tower and hangar from the local fighting force in a defending mode, or better co-ordination before take-off. Also in the case of Regional chat, allow for communication between you and your enemy if you both got towered out by mutual destruction.
#5. Rename "Country" channel to "Command" - Hopefully adjusting the name of this channel helps define the purpose of this channel a little better. Allows for a "same country shout out" to request help from other areas, but at the same time, makes it easier to "tune out" if a "fluff" conversation occurs, as the new "local" channel would received increased importance due to the larger range and ability to read/hear from the ground (tower/hangar)
#6. Tune channels by "name", not number - This is primarily for "user friendlyness", and information... Would allow a player to create a channel such as "A15-A22", for a specific campaign or mission (Yes, I realize there is a mission channel as well).
#7. Create a new chat button - Allows for a 2nd set of 4 tunable vox channels. Such as the ' key, which would allow for tunable ', CTRL-', ALT-' and SHIFT-'
#8. Make channel 1 - Help default for new accounts This may be done already, but if not, I think would be a great start. Also, make this channel broadcast cross arena and cross country so that anyone tuned could help answer a question. There should be a limit as to how often you can chat to it however, such as 5 lines every 10 minutes or something, to avoid spamming.

Currently help channel is #6, and it is set to default radio 1 when you start the game. The difference is you can not "tune" channel 6 if you don't want to listen to the new folks, you can not "untune" channel 1. Terrible idea

The overall ideas behind these changes is that it would make chatting/communications more of a "local" affair, which makes it easier to "peer pressure" sheriff our own, and is hopefully friendlier to the new player and old. I.e. It's easier to sift through and react to messages from the closest 70 people to you, than the entire 400 in the arena, ESPECIALLY when you are possibly/likely in visual range. My thinking is that this would be less intimidating to a new player, as the text buffer wouldn't get completely full of nonsensical insults and politics, as well as allowing them to talk to those people he can physically see around him better. Also would make it feel more "close" to those of us NOT new, as communications would be more regionalized, than just the mass "communications blast" we can see now. My hope is that this would also help alleviate/avoid some of the "cesspool" problem that HTC has stated time and time again that pops up when arenas start getting large. It's almost similar to creating "zones" or "instances" of other MMOs without fundamentally altering the game itself.

What do you all think? Would this help? Any pieces you like/dislike? Is this a solution in search for a problem?
And yes, before anyone calls me out on this, it absolutely was inspired by recent conversations about Arena Caps, but IMO, this could help irregardless.
Thanks for your time.

As for your idea of changing to "named" channels, your talking a whole nother level of difficulty programming wise, for ???? gain? Anyone who takes the time to surf through the trainers site and master a simple dot command can in half an hour learn to tune any chat or vox channel to any radio in seconds.

Granted, small tight knit communities police themselves in many respects.
Granted once you get over 150 people in an arena that becomes harder.
Partially because the new people coming into AH do not have any sense of stake or reputation to be lost.
So why do they care what anyone else thinks.  That changes over time, but rewriting the radios won't change that either.

Your local "region's" just become harder to enforce what we already have.
Without really adding anything, because people are going to be constantly shifting into and out of those areas.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the thought that went into your post.
I just don't see where it adds enough to be worth taking the effort to try to coad it.
Not to mention that in some respects it makes life much more difficult for existing mods.

I think more of the problems would be solved by keeping the arena's smaller, and opening new arena's as needed than what you have suggested.

[APDrone]

My suggestion of manually tuning it was supposed to be a pain.    I.e., allow those who want to have it still have it, but overall make it far more convinient (incentive) to use the "regional" chat instead. (My original idea was to do away with 200 completely, but I felt this was a comprimise to allow it but hopefully curb the negative somewhat it seems to constantly have in it.)

Well, keep in mind that all channels above 199 are game-wide, so if you got 200 killed, they'd just move to 201 and it would be the same thing. Again, forcing people to repeatedly enter keystrokes to 'setup' their session each night is a painful waste of time and is really against the fundamental reason we have computers in the first place.

I wavered a few times on what to call it. Any suggestions? I just think "country" confers a too "informal" connotation, and really the idea here is to get more usage in the Regional and Local channels, and "command" was all I could think of. Maybe HeadQuarters?

If anything, maybe 'coordination' channel.. but that implies that an effort to that effect is in place.  Realistically, it is a glorified chat room and calling it 'Country' reflects that.

I'd think it's just as easy to type in "Meet me in ShootGVs" as it is to "Meet me in 183", so perhaps I am just not sure what makes it more difficult? I was thinking there would be benfeits of having a chat room name with a "description" of what that room is about as opposed to just randomly trying to chose an untaken number.

Well, this goes against my inner core in that keystrokes are bad. You have up to 3 keystrokes to indicate channel if you stick to a number.  You have up to 8+ if you go to characters.  HTC would have to incorporate the vulgarity filter for channel descriptions, because you KNOW some numpty is going to try to create a vulgar frequency description. Every keystroke required increases the liklihood it will be entered wrong. Wrong keystrokes cause confusion, anger, and frustration.  This is bad.  Avoid bad.  Go with fewer keystrokes. 

[guncrasher]

Can you please explain why it is a "Cesspool".  I think 200 is fun, most of the time.  and It can always be "tuned out".  most of the changes suggested are really no changes, but just make it more complicated to tune to a specific Chanel.


semp

[waystin2]

Can you please explain why it is a "Cesspool".  I think 200 is fun, most of the time.  and It can always be "tuned out".  most of the changes suggested are really no changes, but just make it more complicated to tune to a specific Chanel.


semp

Semp you are getting our squad channel mixed up with channel 200!   

[bravoa8]

Semp you are getting our squad channel mixed up with channel 200!   

[milesobrian]

Is definitely  better than the server caps, their current solution to the "cesspool excuse".

the general idea probably would do some good especially making an off chat channel, so now when someone is spamming 200 or taking off topic, you can actually say "go here" and possibly remove them.  instead now 200 is sorta seen like the general chat channel.

[milesobrian]

I'm going to step way out on a limb here. First off I truly believe most problems are caused by people. In which case nothing you do with the hardware is really going to change anything.

As for your idea of changing to "named" channels, your talking a whole nother level of difficulty programming wise, for ???? gain? Anyone who takes the time to surf through the trainers site and master a simple dot command can in half an hour learn to tune any chat or vox channel to any radio in seconds.

Granted, small tight knit communities police themselves in many respects.
Granted once you get over 150 people in an arena that becomes harder.
Partially because the new people coming into AH do not have any sense of stake or reputation to be lost.
So why do they care what anyone else thinks.  That changes over time, but rewriting the radios won't change that either.

Your local "region's" just become harder to enforce what we already have.
Without really adding anything, because people are going to be constantly shifting into and out of those areas.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the thought that went into your post.
I just don't see where it adds enough to be worth taking the effort to try to coad it.
Not to mention that in some respects it makes life much more difficult for existing mods.

I think more of the problems would be solved by keeping the arena's smaller, and opening new arena's as needed than what you have suggested.

Many games namely bnet games if i recall have that system where the player created chat channel or room is set by a player name, usually if they are smart the name is short and easy to remember.  This seems to be the current standard so think of all the work coading will be for a better cause than you think.  Perhaps this change may not be worth the effort at this point with so many other great projects you guys have lined up but perhaps in the future with out so many other more important things you could implement something like this
Also people arent going to be shifting arenas any more than they already do.  Players switch arenas mostly because the current one they are in is lacking in action.  If they are engaged with a good fight, chances are they wont leave.  I highly doubt some chat channel would change this.  People will still leave when they cant fing any action regardless of a chat function, it would just help to coordinate things if anything at all.  BESIDES half the time their is only one choice, which means no choice at all when the arena caps are up, so that is a non issue.


It seems that you guys are dead set on your CessPool Hypothesis which really isnt addressing the heart of the problem.  I think making a off topic chat that can be tuned in or out would be best as it would give those who want to rant on an outlet to do so, and those who choose to listen can do so if they want.  That way you can actually tell these people wrong channel, and force them to move or risk some sorta game infraction.   With your feature that after a certain amount of player .reports will mute that person for a week does a pretty good job at doing the policing and squelch is even better.  

i dont understand why you have two maps usually one big and one on the small side and dont set the caps the same way .  i dont see why you set the arena capacity to correlate with the map size.  However renaming server pink was a good start.

AP Drone
"Well, this goes against my inner core in that keystrokes are bad. You have up to 3 keystrokes to indicate channel if you stick to a number.  You have up to 8+ if you go to characters.  HTC would have to incorporate the vulgarity filter for channel descriptions, because you KNOW some numpty is going to try to create a vulgar frequency description. Every keystroke required increases the liklihood it will be entered wrong. Wrong keystrokes cause confusion, anger, and frustration.  This is bad.  Avoid bad.  Go with fewer keystrokes.  "

What kind of things do you do when your aircraft is climbing to alt or other wise set to autopilot.  Maybe if you dont feel like its worth typing more than 3 key strokes, its probably not worth going to the chat channel at all.  honestly this seems to be the standard in most games, most gamers when they feels that its worth it (they have something to gain, ie joining squad chat channel or channel with friend) will type it, and trust me people dont use random numbers they use simple common and easy to remember single word, unless of course they want more privacy which they make it harder to remember, type and thus its a bit more private with out having to add password system. If you enter it wrong type it again or double check, people make mistakes, and this one is of no real consequence. 

Who cares if someone a "numpty" (its as if you think that people who use vulgar words are beneath you?) uses a vulgar word, its their life.  If you dont like it no one is forcing you to join it or even look at that word since the channel would be known only to those, who the creator has told.  Again vulgarity, its just words simple meaningless words that someone who dosent really matter decided that they are for what ever reason "bad"

Again this guys recommendation is basically the standard of most online games not even just MMOs.  I feel like alot of you are over thinking it and its really simple and user driven for the most part.

[APDrone]

 I think making a off topic chat that can be tuned in or out would be best as it would give those who want to rant on an outlet to do so, and those who choose to listen can do so if they want.  That way you can actually tell these people wrong channel, and force them to move or risk some sorta game infraction.   With your feature that after a certain amount of player .reports will mute that person for a week does a pretty good job at doing the policing and squelch is even better.  

Not sure if you actually play the game, but 200 already IS able to be tuned out.  Now, if you're referring to the country channel being tuned out, that's a different argument that has been beaten beyond dead like so many other horses in this forum.

AP Drone
"Well, this goes against my inner core in that keystrokes are bad. You have up to 3 keystrokes to indicate channel if you stick to a number.  You have up to 8+ if you go to characters.  HTC would have to incorporate the vulgarity filter for channel descriptions, because you KNOW some numpty is going to try to create a vulgar frequency description. Every keystroke required increases the liklihood it will be entered wrong. Wrong keystrokes cause confusion, anger, and frustration.  This is bad.  Avoid bad.  Go with fewer keystrokes.  "

What kind of things do you do when your aircraft is climbing to alt or other wise set to autopilot.  Maybe if you dont feel like its worth typing more than 3 key strokes, its probably not worth going to the chat channel at all.  honestly this seems to be the standard in most games, most gamers when they feels that its worth it (they have something to gain, ie joining squad chat channel or channel with friend) will type it, and trust me people dont use random numbers they use simple common and easy to remember single word, unless of course they want more privacy which they make it harder to remember, type and thus its a bit more private with out having to add password system. If you enter it wrong type it again or double check, people make mistakes, and this one is of no real consequence. 

It's not a case of whether or not it's worth the effort. I'm just anticipating the headaches when somebody gets fancy and then ends up having to repeat themselves a dozen times because folks weren't paying attention.  Seen it enough for something simple as plane assignments and loadouts.. heck, been guilty of it myself.  If you want privacy, use Ventrillo or Teamspeak like some of us.

Who cares if someone a "numpty" (its as if you think that people who use vulgar words are beneath you?) uses a vulgar word, its their life.  If you dont like it no one is forcing you to join it or even look at that word since the channel would be known only to those, who the creator has told.  Again vulgarity, its just words simple meaningless words that someone who dosent really matter decided that they are for what ever reason "bad"

Um.. vulgarity and the attempt to work around it is directly against the rules of this game.  The report feature had to be added to attempt to handle these numpties. And, yes, some of us do care.  Having to explain to your child who asks 'What does that word mean?' before you can .squelch the numpty is just another annoyance that behaviour inflicts.   

[DREDIOCK]

My suggestion of manually tuning it was supposed to be a pain.    I.e., allow those who want to have it still have it, but overall make it far more convinient (incentive) to use the "regional" chat instead. (My original idea was to do away with 200 completely, but I felt this was a comprimise to allow it but hopefully curb the negative somewhat it seems to constantly have in it.)

Why? There is no need to. Nobody is forced to tune to 200
If anyone doesnt like 200 and its negativity they can always do away with it themselves by simply tuning to another channel.

[guncrasher]

Semp you are getting our squad channel mixed up with channel 200!   

haha  .

ok knite would you care what exactly is the cesspool you are talking about? 

semp