Does Text Chat need changing / The Cesspool

[froger]

Your ideas are good and all, but I don't see how they do anything that squelch doesn't already do.  Unless I am missing something...

fixed

[Knite]

ok knite would you care what exactly is the cesspool you are talking about?  

Sure semp, although, I will freely admit my thoughts are based on a "3rd party" notion... that is, as I said in my OP, during conversations about Arena Caps over the years, there has been a lot of talk about basically, the idea that an arena getting too large creates some problems that hinder growth of the game. One reason that seems to pop up again and again is that the larger numbers creates a "cesspool". My interpretation (which I can fully admit could be incorrect) based on reading a lot of the posts and discussions about caps is that this "cesspool" basically refers to the massive amounts of negativity (in chat) that eventually overtake the non-negative style posts. This breeds animosity amongst the player base, increases the elitism style messages directed towards "newbies",, and alienates some of the older crew that frankly, had grown out of that style of comminications/chat, and makes your chat buffer a huge *bleeping* wall of text that frankly, you can no longer functionally communicate well in.

What I did was basically try to think of "why would that happen"?
One hypothesis I came up with is that the larger the arena grows, the more "anonymous" someone becomes, or at least, feels, giving them the confidence to spew garbage into the text buffer without recourse. The larger the arena, the more this "anonymous" feeling grows, and the less likely "peer pressure" has any ability to curb it.

My concept in the original post was that by trying to force text chat into a more "regionalized" type system, the text buffer would no longer be getting flooded, decreasing the "intimidation factor" for the newer players. The less overall numbers in that "regionalized" type chat system would also mean it'd be easier to "peer pressure" into others some semblance of ... well, politeness isn't the right word, but hopefully gives sort of an idea of what I'm referring to ... due to the text buffer no longer scrolling like it's going out of style. There's less of a feeling of "anonimity" as well, so hopefully that helps reduce the "garbage style" text buffer inputs right out of the gate.

So overall, my thinking was - Closer knit communications, better self-policing peer pressure, easier and more flexible text system, and less text buffer overflow "garbage" may help alleviate some of the problems.



A couple of other specific replies :
@DREDIOCK - The biggest reason I suggested that was because it's like watching a car crash in Nascar, or the current "biggest arena" syndrome AH has. People don't always think about whether or not it's "good for them". I know plenty of people have gotten disgusted at the 200 channel but yet, won't tune it out/off because they are afraid they'll "miss something good" so to speak

@APDrone - I understand what you are saying. I personally disagree that names vs. numbers would cause the problem of mis-communication on a massive scale, especially since often you'll be typing to the intended "joiners" the exact name via text chat, but that's nothing more than difference of opinion. To me, simplicity would be to say "join Channel "Cobras"", and to you it would be "join Channel "135"". Guess we'll just have to disagree on this one =) Re: Vulgar Language, I don't think you'd need to make a new filter for vulgar named chat rooms, primarily because A) if someone tried to type "join me in "MotherShucker", it wouldn't make it to the text box anyway, so no one could join, and B) since chat rooms already aren't listed, and I wasn't planning on having these listed, IMO it'd be one of those "can't see, doesn't matter". Sure, a channel out there may wind up being called "MS", but you wouldn't see it, and no one could type it in text as now anyway. I'm not adverse to a chat room name filter, but if it is a huge increase in overhead to implement, I wouldn't be adverse to not having one either. I would think the current vulgar filter could apply to both?

@Yeager - I'm sorry. I'd love to answer that statement, but I have no clue how squelch relates to a change in the "feeling" of the entire chat structure. Sorry. =(

[Denholm]

Can't we all just get along?

Gimmie a hug!

[milesobrian]

I think making a off topic chat that can be tuned in or out would be best as it would give those who want to rant on an outlet to do so, and those who choose to listen can do so if they want.  That way you can actually tell these people wrong channel, and force them to move or risk some sorta game infraction.   With your feature that after a certain amount of player .reports will mute that person for a week does a pretty good job at doing the policing and squelch is even better. 

Not sure if you actually play the game, but 200 already IS able to be tuned out.  Now, if you're referring to the country channel being tuned out, that's a different argument that has been beaten beyond dead like so many other horses in this forum.

Um.. vulgarity and the attempt to work around it is directly against the rules of this game.  The report feature had to be added to attempt to handle these numpties. And, yes, some of us do care.  Having to explain to your child who asks 'What does that word mean?' before you can .squelch the numpty is just another annoyance that behavior inflicts.   

you are right 200 is tunable but thats not what i said.  i said an "off topic chat" 200 isnt an off topic chat at least i dont think that was the intention, the point is having an off topic chat would give those a place who choose to have other conversations a designated spot do it in, leaving the 200 channels for game play only.


honestly if my child heard a swear which they have, i would simply tell them the truth, out of everything in the world my kid hearing a swear word dosent really matter in the long run.  They go to public school, and even tho its an elementary school they probably know all the "swear" words anyways and they might even use them from time to time.  Should i be freaking out cuz my children use words that have been judged to be "bad" words, even tho words themselves cant be either bad or good.  I just love those complacent parents that get all up in arms because their child either uses or knows swears words.  Trust me their are worse things for your kids to be doing much worse.

If you are worried about your child hearing a swear word just tell them "yea in reality its just simply a word that society for what ever reasons (probably religious) has deemed bad.  Also mention that some people might get offended so it might be a good idea to minimize the use of those words around certain people and when you swear alot you are just taking away what they mean.

After all back in the day people called chicken for instance the dark meat, white meat because to say i want the "breast" of the chicken, or the "thigh" of the chicken was not the proper thing to do. both breast and thigh were considered vulgar even in the context of eating a chicken.

the whole notion of profanity and words being either bad or good is primitive at best and really in the end means nothing.  and to think their are whole organizations that try and continue the notion of profanity and how it is bad.


wake up people they are simply words, words are neither bad or good.  worry more about your actions.

i know its against the rules but it shouldnt even be a consideration since its such non issue as far as new features are concerned, i would worry more about how it would improve the game and the impact it would have on the game.

the fact that you dont swear means that you use baby talk words like numpty in lieu of maybe more profane words,  remember what your parents told you sticks and stones can break my bones but WORDS MAY NEVER HURT ME. 

[APDrone]

you are right 200 is tunable but thats not what i said.  i said an "off topic chat" 200 isnt an off topic chat at least i dont think that was the intention, the point is having an off topic chat would give those a place who choose to have other conversations a designated spot do it in, leaving the 200 channels for game play only.


honestly if my child heard a swear which they have, i would simply tell them the truth, out of everything in the world my kid hearing a swear word dosent really matter in the long run.  They go to public school, and even tho its an elementary school they probably know all the "swear" words anyways and they might even use them from time to time.  Should i be freaking out cuz my children use words that have been judged to be "bad" words, even tho words themselves cant be either bad or good.  I just love those complacent parents that get all up in arms because their child either uses or knows swears words.  Trust me their are worse things for your kids to be doing much worse.

If you are worried about your child hearing a swear word just tell them "yea in reality its just simply a word that society for what ever reasons (probably religious) has deemed bad.  Also mention that some people might get offended so it might be a good idea to minimize the use of those words around certain people and when you swear alot you are just taking away what they mean.

After all back in the day people called chicken for instance the dark meat, white meat because to say i want the "breast" of the chicken, or the "thigh" of the chicken was not the proper thing to do. both breast and thigh were considered vulgar even in the context of eating a chicken.

the whole notion of profanity and words being either bad or good is primitive at best and really in the end means nothing.  and to think their are whole organizations that try and continue the notion of profanity and how it is bad.


wake up people they are simply words, words are neither bad or good.  worry more about your actions.

i know its against the rules but it shouldnt even be a consideration since its such non issue as far as new features are concerned, i would worry more about how it would improve the game and the impact it would have on the game.

the fact that you dont swear means that you use baby talk words like numpty in lieu of maybe more profane words,  remember what your parents told you sticks and stones can break my bones but WORDS MAY NEVER HURT ME. 

Oh wow..    um..

When I feel I need advice on how to be a parent, I'll ask.

Until then, just because you don't like the rules doesn't mean you get to ignore them and tell everybody else to just deal with it.  Kinda sums up the whole basis for which this post was started, doesn't it?

There's your problem.

[milesobrian]

Oh wow..    um..

When I feel I need advice on how to be a parent, I'll ask.

Until then, just because you don't like the rules doesn't mean you get to ignore them and tell everybody else to just deal with it.  Kinda sums up the whole basis for which this post was started, doesn't it?

There's your problem.

People dont get all upset when someone types or says a swear word in the chat channels (besides you).  I would say its more about the content of what they are saying that people are talking about, like when they take on controversial issues or when they troll, this whole topic isnt simply about swearing.  They have those filters so essentially this is a non issue anyways, but the moral police want to make it one.


When did i ignore the rules?  Im just stating truth, the irrelevance and  how illogical people consider profanity.  You know the word humbug, at one time that was considered a swear but today is not the case, if swear words were truly bad would they change over time?  Im not saying you SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T swear, its not my place to tell anyone else to either swear or not to im just simply stating the truth of the matter.  For you to tell someone not to swear for reasons you really cant explain (because someone said they are bad, isnt a reason)is just stupid, swearing is neither bad nor good its a non issue and to turn it into one is foolish and small minded.  If you are so against swearing you wouldnt even use the word numpty, because after all numpty is a word that is intended to mean the same thing as what many would consider a swear, it just simply sounds different, but it generally meant to mean the same thing.  When you use these baby talk alternatives instead of swearing you are just making a fool of your self since you are just saying the same thing pretty much you are just using baby talk words.

See what i mean some how you took my rationalization and realistic discussion of profanity and turned some how made it to sum up the whole thread?
as if the whole notion of trying to discuss realistically, profanity, as profane in and of it self?
How is swearing a problem let alone MY problem?  You just seem like a typical small minded conservative fool who feels like they can dictate how people talk for better or worse.

Or you can lie to your children and not tell them the whole truth and simply say "swear words are bad cuz i said so" is probably counter productive since thats not a real reason

Our society as become less formal, more casual over the years and it makes sense that this would also reflect in the way we talk.


Dont take your concerns as a parent, and impose those concerns on everyone else.  If someone swears squelch them, and if the child hears the swear then I guess the world ends (or the second coming of Christ happens) or something, or MAYBE NOT.

 Its like god gave you the right to judge your neighbor and thus thinks everyone who uses swear words are numpty, who are you?

[APDrone]

People dont get all upset when someone types or says a swear word in the chat channels (besides you).  I would say its more about the content of what they are saying that people are talking about, like when they take on controversial issues or when they troll, this whole topic isnt simply about swearing.  They have those filters so essentially this is a non issue anyways, but the moral police want to make it one.


When did i ignore the rules?  Im just stating truth, the irrelevance and  how illogical people consider profanity.  You know the word humbug, at one time that was considered a swear but today is not the case, if swear words were truly bad would they change over time?  Im not saying you SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T swear, its not my place to tell anyone else to either swear or not to im just simply stating the truth of the matter.  For you to tell someone not to swear for reasons you really cant explain (because someone said they are bad, isnt a reason)is just stupid, swearing is neither bad nor good its a non issue and to turn it into one is foolish and small minded.  If you are so against swearing you wouldnt even use the word numpty, because after all numpty is a word that is intended to mean the same thing as what many would consider a swear, it just simply sounds different, but it generally meant to mean the same thing.  When you use these baby talk alternatives instead of swearing you are just making a fool of your self since you are just saying the same thing pretty much you are just using baby talk words.

See what i mean some how you took my rationalization and realistic discussion of profanity and turned some how made it to sum up the whole thread?
as if the whole notion of trying to discuss realistically, profanity, as profane in and of it self?
How is swearing a problem let alone MY problem?  You just seem like a typical small minded conservative fool who feels like they can dictate how people talk for better or worse.

Or you can lie to your children and not tell them the whole truth and simply say "swear words are bad cuz i said so" is probably counter productive since thats not a real reason

Our society as become less formal, more casual over the years and it makes sense that this would also reflect in the way we talk.


Dont take your concerns as a parent, and impose those concerns on everyone else.  If someone swears squelch them, and if the child hears the swear then I guess the world ends (or the second coming of Christ happens) or something, or MAYBE NOT.

 Its like god gave you the right to judge your neighbor and thus thinks everyone who uses swear words are numpty, who are you?

Miles..  You are failing to observe that the rules against profanity are in place already.  You have spent reams of virtual parchment proclaiming on how those rules are either obsolete, unreasonable, small minded..etc. and you are continuing to rally around the idea that because you don't like these rules, you shouldn't abide by them and here's why.. And everybody else should ignore them and here's why.... Our society is changing.. It's become more casual..   

More disrespectful is more like it.  Common courtesy isn't anymore. 

When the rules are changed, flame away and more power to you. Until then, however, show your respect to the hosts of the game and your fellow players by abiding by them. If people followed those simple guidelines, this whole thread would be unnecessary.

[Nemisis]

Heres what I feel would improve comms:

1) add range text (same range as vox, and it will eliminate the text from the guys defending the base you spawned from, and from the random conversations that pop up).

2) create region channel (yeah, I know. I'm just taking from the OP, and changing/adding). It will take some of the strain off of 200, and with a range equal to that of the old radar, it would allow chat between countries fighting over a base, but cut out the chat from the other 97% of the arena population.

3) create a 'help' channel, and keep it enabled (unlike channel 1). Text will appear orange, and have it be tunable, that way anyone who doesn't want to listen to the "how do i shoot", won't be tempted to reply with "alt F4 fires your air-to-air missles".

4) use good behavior in the game. If someone whines, squelch them, but don't make a big deal of it on range, or country (an unnamed player is convinced that when I say "aleart 153, large raid inbound", I am whining and in need of a chewing out). Yes, this will require you to act your age, and be mature. So suck it up, and shut up on 200  .

[milesobrian]

Miles..  You are failing to observe that the rules against profanity are in place already.  You have spent reams of virtual parchment proclaiming on how those rules are either obsolete, unreasonable, small minded..etc. and you are continuing to rally around the idea that because you don't like these rules, you shouldn't abide by them and here's why.. And everybody else should ignore them and here's why.... Our society is changing.. It's become more casual..   
putting words in to my mouth typical of someone who has nothing to back up what they are trying to say.  Come at me with something tangible.

More disrespectful is more like it.  Common courtesy isn't anymore. 
disrespectful would have been breaking those rules, this is simply a discussion.  See here is how freedom works in private domain people can have what ever rules they want,and if you dont abide by them you face the consequences, but personally an individual should do what they want and talk how they want when they are in their private domain or even public spaces where free speech is not regulate, with out having to worry about some (can i say numpty?) judging them

When the rules are changed, flame away and more power to you. Until then, however, show your respect to the hosts of the game and your fellow players by abiding by them. If people followed those simple guidelines, this whole thread would be unnecessary. 
again you insinuate that i am breaking some rule by simply discussing the way you look down upon people who happen to use swear words.

I can understand why their is a language filter in place and this is pretty much standard in most similar games.  What shouldnt be done is judging people because they use what you consider profane language.  Remember we have the right to free speech NOT the right to be not offended.  Except where you make the rules which is your house or your game, and even then you should try and keep an open mind.
This has gone on off topic for long enough so i will leave you with this advice if your child happens to swear or they hear a swear word.
 Remain calm and matter-of-fact. If you get upset, your child may use the word again to try to get attention.


I believe some tweaking to the chat system could help with the off topic and some times unwanted chat currently seen in 200. 

Swearing is a non issue in this discussion. the game has preventive measures in place already and is in reality not a big deal.