Apex Aircraft

[dirtdart]

It would be interesting to see the extremes of operational aircraft from all included manufacturing countries.  What if we looked at the earliest (most obsolete) aircraft by country to see operational service and the last (most evolutionary).  There are a few countries in this vein, however they are not all there.  I have said for a while I would love to see the last of the fighting biplanes like the fiats to compliment the I-16.  I can just see the poor sap who slows his pony into a stall fight and gets picked by a CR-42. Anyway, just a thought on a way to look at potential future additions.  Your thoughts? 
 

[Simba]

Great idea, D-D. One qualification: the aircraft type should have been flown operationally during WW2. Bombers and recce types shouldn't be neglected but I'll stick to fighters for now; also, to only the major combatant nations.

The Gloster Gladiator (or even Gauntlet, if you count the handful used in the early days of the North African campaign) to Gloster Meteor pairing immediately springs to the mind of this ol' Brit; splendid manufacturer, was Gloster, and the Gladdie would complement the Fiat CR.42 nicely in a North African scenario. The Italians already have the ultimate fighter in their planeset, so that's sorted, but how about the Fiat CR.32, which was still operational in 1940 (and would be a 'must-have' for any Spanish Civil War scenario, see also the Soviet I-15, below). The Germans can have a Jumo-engined Bf109D to add to the Messerschmitt variants they've already got, and just maybe the Heinkel He 162 Salamander. Japanese? Mmmmmm, got to be the Nakajima Ki-27, operational from 1937 and later code-named 'Nate' by the Allies (another of the Gladiator's opponents - in fact, the first Gladiator combats occured over China) but what might be the late-war choice? I'd go for the Mitsubishi J2M Raiden 'Jack' - or, maybe better, the ultimate development of the Nakajima Ki-43 'Oscar, the late-war IIIB, which could then be re-coded to create the I and II variants so glaringly missing in the present AH line-up.

The Curtiss P-36A was the first U.S. fighter flown into action by a U.S. air force in WW2, when four belonging to the 46th Pursuit Squadron managed to get airborne at Pearl Harbor to oppose the IJNAF - and a recoding as the earlier export equivalent Hawk 75A would do nicely to introduce a French Air Force fighter into the AH lineup for the very first time, a long-overdue development. Perhaps a Morane-Saulnier 406 for the French as well? The Russkie Polikarpov I-15 biplane will do nicely for our Red friends, with perhaps a Yak-3 for the Normandie-Niemen fans. Netherlanders and the Finns would surely enjoy the Fokker D.XXI, it's got to be the PZL P.11c for the Poles - and that'll do for my contribution.

     

  

[RufusLeaking]

Great idea, D-D. One qualification: the aircraft type should have been flown operationally during WW2.   

What is the date on that?  Japan was fighting in China for ten years prior to Pearl Harbor.  The Germans and the Soviets were in Spain in the years running up to the invasion of Poland.  Italy was in Ethiopia.

Personally, I would like to see more 1939 birds.  Prior to the convergent evolution of super fast, super gunned planes that eventually dominated the sky.

Whatever, the more planes/vehicles/ships, the better.  It is a matter of limited resources at HTC.

[Simba]

Good point, Rufus. While most Westerners would say that WW2 started with the German invasion of Poland on 1st September 1939, some nations had been at war for at least two years before that date: China and Japan, with the added element of Russian involvement in what the Japanese called the Nomonhan Incident in 1939. Here's a couple of links about the Second Sino-Japanese War and the Battle of Khalkin-Gol/Nomonhan Incident:

http://www.japan-101.com/history/sino1.htm

http://www.siberianlight.net/khalkhin-gol-battle-nomonhan/

Reckon if you're Japanese or Chinese, you could well say WW2 began in 1937 - or even 1931 - and the conflict didn't end until 1945.

<rubs paws in glee at the thought of getting to fly a Ki-27b over Manchukuo and a Gladiator in defence of Chungking>

 

[321BAR]

Great idea, D-D. One qualification: the aircraft type should have been flown operationally during WW2. Bombers and recce types shouldn't be neglected but I'll stick to fighters for now; also, to only the major combatant nations.

The Gloster Gladiator (or even Gauntlet, if you count the handful used in the early days of the North African campaign)
Japanese? Mmmmmm, got to be the Nakajima Ki-27, operational from 1937 and later code-named 'Nate' by the Allies (another of the Gladiator's opponents - in fact, the first Gladiator combats occured over China) but what might be the late-war choice? I'd go for the Mitsubishi J2M Raiden 'Jack' - or, maybe better, the ultimate development of the Nakajima Ki-43 'Oscar, the late-war IIIB, which could then be re-coded to create the I and II variants so glaringly missing in the present AH line-up.

The Russkie Polikarpov I-15 biplane will do nicely for our Red friends, with perhaps a Yak-3 for the Normandie-Niemen fans.

     

  

all of these would be fun and interesting additions to AH. And i know waystin will be happy with the Yak-3 +1

[dirtdart]

For the Japanese I was looking to the KI-43 as the low end.  As far as the Italians, you got me going by mentioning the Cr-32.  Quite possibly the most elegant fighting biplane. Would be cool..... How about the original forward air support plane the Henshcel 123.  Anyway, great feedback.  I know we are always looking for the "new toy" in the hanger.  Some are perceived as disappointing to those who don't understand their application.  Hopefully they are not the ones with the ultimate say.   

[dirtdart]

Forgot to add, those regional conflicts became formally global in December of 1941.  I must restate formally to put out the ensuing flamers.

[Wiley]

Hmm... by the sounds of the planes you're suggesting, I would also suggest they might need a new ENY class of 45 or 50 (200?) to compensate.

More planes makes for more game.  I like it, though I think they'd wind up hangar queens for the most part.

Wiley.

[Simba]

"Forgot to add, those regional conflicts became formally global in December of 1941.  I must restate formally to put out the ensuing flamers."

Fair comment, although I question the 'formal' bit; did they suddenly dress up smartly for dinner, or what?

Ah yes, that 'day that shall live in infamy' that finally began the filling in of the spaces where the Royal Navy hadn't gone between September 1939 and December 1941. Now let's see, where did the jolly ol' Andrew operate in those far-off days before Pearl Harbor? Atlantic Ocean, Indian Ocean, Mediterranean Sea, China coast, North Sea . . .

And the Soviet Union had been fighting the Germans for over five months before Hitler made the most dreadful error of declaring war on the USA. What a clot. Meanwhile, the Japanese and Chinese had been slugging it out for at least four years to decide who was going to grab the largest area of rice paddies.

And then the cavalry arrived, bless 'em.

Right, shall we get back to the aircraft now?

 

  

[BulletVI]

Yeah the Gloster Gladiator the fiats Poland's Old Plane what was it now ?????

Down to the Russian's last wee biplane the forefather to the I16

[dirtdart]

Simba, you speak as if you are from the country that spawned the language....lol.  Yes, Roosevelt declaring war on Japan sort of closed the global loop.....formally .  The hanger queen thing, yeah true enough, like the SBD or some of the other, close to certain death planes (JU-87).  The point is that they will cater to the aviation lovers and I would argue that their passion helps keep the game alive and honest.   Were it not for some good business focus, buffs like ourselves talking about how the 38 is too light (for example), we might be playing with X-box controllers and not flight sticks..... 

Nothing in this game is cooler than plowing a 44-45' plane with a 36-38 plane such as a hurri 1. (Except maybe getting a round or two into Kazaa or Bruv before they slaughter you).

[Pigslilspaz]

Give me some old timey planes dammit! 

[Kurtank]

Great idea, D-D. One qualification: the aircraft type should have been flown operationally during WW2. Bombers and recce types shouldn't be neglected but I'll stick to fighters for now; also, to only the major combatant nations.

The Gloster Gladiator (or even Gauntlet, if you count the handful used in the early days of the North African campaign) to Gloster Meteor pairing immediately springs to the mind of this ol' Brit; splendid manufacturer, was Gloster, and the Gladdie would complement the Fiat CR.42 nicely in a North African scenario. The Italians already have the ultimate fighter in their planeset, so that's sorted, but how about the Fiat CR.32, which was still operational in 1940 (and would be a 'must-have' for any Spanish Civil War scenario, see also the Soviet I-15, below). The Germans can have a Jumo-engined Bf109D to add to the Messerschmitt variants they've already got, and just maybe the Heinkel He 162 Salamander. Japanese? Mmmmmm, got to be the Nakajima Ki-27, operational from 1937 and later code-named 'Nate' by the Allies (another of the Gladiator's opponents - in fact, the first Gladiator combats occured over China) but what might be the late-war choice? I'd go for the Mitsubishi J2M Raiden 'Jack' - or, maybe better, the ultimate development of the Nakajima Ki-43 'Oscar, the late-war IIIB, which could then be re-coded to create the I and II variants so glaringly missing in the present AH line-up.

The Curtiss P-36A was the first U.S. fighter flown into action by a U.S. air force in WW2, when four belonging to the 46th Pursuit Squadron managed to get airborne at Pearl Harbor to oppose the IJNAF - and a recoding as the earlier export equivalent Hawk 75A would do nicely to introduce a French Air Force fighter into the AH lineup for the very first time, a long-overdue development. Perhaps a Morane-Saulnier 406 for the French as well? The Russkie Polikarpov I-15 biplane will do nicely for our Red friends, with perhaps a Yak-3 for the Normandie-Niemen fans. Netherlanders and the Finns would surely enjoy the Fokker D.XXI, it's got to be the PZL P.11c for the Poles - and that'll do for my contribution.

     

  

I'd like to correct you in that the ultimate operational wartime Italian design was the G.55, not the C.205. However, operational and production figures mimic those of the Ta-152, with 105 built by wars end. It received glowing reviews by pilots and was regarded as the best fighter in the axis. But I would gladly support its inclusion.

I would also love to see more older planes included. Though I haven't been able to play for quite some time, I always loved flying the FM2 and scored a good killcount in my time. Can't wait to get back in the saddle and try out the new A/C, and I'd love to see more early/interwar designs.