Author Topic: New Products and Future Products for 2002  (Read 714 times)

Offline bloom25

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New Products and Future Products for 2002
« on: January 07, 2002, 05:54:00 PM »
There's a lot going on today.  Intel and AMD are both officially releasing new CPUs today.  Intel is releasing their new design P4 (codename "Northwood") at 2 and 2.2 Ghz.  AMD is releasing Athlon XP 2000+ (1667 Mhz).  Normally I'd only mention new CPU releases in passing, but these releases today are more significant.

The Athlon XP 2000+ is simply a 67 Mhz clockspeed boost over the 1900+ model.  It also happens to be the fastest CPU that most Socket A boards can support without a bios upgrade.  (It uses a 12.5 multiplier.)  Performance improvement is what you'd expect, not a whole lot over the 1900+.

Intel's releases today are a lot more exciting.  Compared to the current P4 design ("Willamette"), the new Northwood design has 256kb more L2 cache AND is built on a .13 micron process.  The switch to .13 micron (which is the minimum gate length of the transistors itself) allows higher clockspeeds, reduces the amount of silicon used, and reduces power consumption.  This means that Intel could potentially reduce prices on P4s. (The estimated manufacturing cost of a Northwood P4 is $55 US.)  The additional cache ram also boosts the performance of the P4 by about 5 - 10% at the same clockspeed.

When comparing the performance of the new Northwood P4 2.2 Ghz and the new Athlon XP 2000+ it becomes much more difficult to pick a clear winner in performance.  Unfortunately Intel didn't make any changes the the FPU (floating point unit), which handles complex math calculations, in the Northwood.  This means that the Athlon continues to hold a significant performance advantage in math intensive applications.  Even when optimized for the P4 with SSE 2 instructions, the P4 has a hard time matching the Athlon XP.  The extra cache ram has however significantly boosted the performance of the P4 in many areas where the Athlon was able to edge out a narrow victory.  When comparing the Athlon XP 1900+ with the "old" 2 Ghz P4, the Athlon was the clear winner in nearly all benchmarks, often by a significant margin.  Now the line is fuzzier.  That means choosing the proper CPU for your next computer in the next few months is not as easy as it once was.

Applications with a significant P4 lead over Athlon XP:

Quake 3 (low resolutions)
Most Open GL games
Sysmark 2001 (internet apps)
Lightwaves (ray tracing)

Applications where P4 and Athlon XP are nearly equal:

Sysmark 2001 (office apps)
Quake 3 (high resolution)
3dMark 2001
Direct X 8 games

Applications where Athlon XP holds a significant edge over Northwood P4:

3dmark 2000
Science Mark
Direct X 7 games
Adobe Photoshop (even with special P4 patch)
3dStudio Max

You also should consider that the Athlon XP supports dual processor operation.  This makes it much better suited as a professional workstation than the P4 with it's powerful FPU.  The P4 seems to be better for OpenGL games.  It's also worth noting that the Athlon XP 2000+ will cost around $325 and the 2.2 Ghz P4 will be $600 AND only achieves top performance when using Rambus PC800 RAM, which costs about 25% more than the DDR ram that the Athlon uses.  The "bang for the buck" ratio is strongly favoring the Athlon XP.

_____________________________ ________________

Future trends for first half of 2002:

Intel will continue to up P4 clockspeed.  Evaluation P4 CPUs (which are not locked) are overclocking easily to 2.8 - 3 Ghz.  Unfortunately retail CPUs, the ones you and I buy, are locked.  Some people have been able to overclock them though to 2.5 Ghz.  This is good news because it is likely Intel will stick with Socket 478 for it's new P4s for at least the next 6 months.  That means that people who have P4 motherboards with Socket 478 will have CPU upgrade options available.  It's important to note that the older P4s were also available in a socket 423 version, which is no longer supported.  That means that if you already have a P4 system that you bought more than a month ago, you WILL NOT be able to upgrade the CPU above the current 2 Ghz P4.  (I.e. not the new design.)

AMD Athlon XP 2000+ CPUs are also overclocking well, with some examples hitting 2 Ghz.  That means that AMD will be able to match the performance of the P4 for the next couple months.  With a bios flash, most current Athlon (and all Athlon XP) users will be able to use these CPUs.  At the end of the first quarter of this year AMD will also be "shrinking" the current Athlon XP design to .13 micron BUT using a more advanced SOI (silicon on insulator) process that should allow much higher clockspeeds.  It appears these CPUs will also fit into Socket A, but certainly a bios flash will be required to use them.

Nvidia is set to announce a new graphics core on February 4th or 5th.  It's unknown what it will be called, but it will probably be GeForce 4.  Expect ATI to respond with by boosting performance of the current Radeon cards with clockspeed boosts, and a new model in March or April.

Intel will also be releasing a mobile P4 chip for laptops, an area where the current P4 cannot be used.

_____________________________ ________________

Future trends for 2nd half 2002:

AMD will release it's successor to the Athlon (codename "Hammer" or K8).  This CPU is going to be revolutionary in many ways.  It will include the memory controller on the CPU itself, which should greatly improve performance over current CPUs by reducing the amount of time the CPU has to wait for data from memory.  It will also reduce the costs of motherboards, as they will no longer have to implement the memory controller on the motherboard.  The K8 largely reuses the extremely powerful FPU (floating point unit) of the K7 (Athlon), but the rest of the processor is beefed up.  It also extends the x86 instruction set to 64 bit, making this CPU able to run all current software AND also uniquely suited for mid-level professional workstation use. (This will allow AMD to compete directly with Intel's Itanium and Sun's Blade UltraSPARC workstations and be capable of being used as a regular desktop processor as well.) This processor, although running at over 2 Ghz already in samples, will not compete clock for clock with the P4.  It doesn't have to, like the current Athlon it gets more done per clock than the P4.  This largely explains why AMD is trying to get away from advertising the true clockspeed of their CPUs.  I wouldn't expect to see this CPU before September.  (It is certain that this CPU will NOT work on current Socket A boards.)

Intel will release a new version of it's workstation processor, the Itanium (codename McKinnley).  I'd also expect Intel to transistion the P4 to DDR SDRAM platforms, away from the more expensive RAMBUS RDRAM.


_____________________________ ________________

Some reviews are starting to pop up comparing the two CPUs:
 http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1/020107/p42200-19.html
 http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1574&p=1

(They seem to have come to the same conclusions as I did.)

[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: bloom25 ]

Offline 2Late4U

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New Products and Future Products for 2002
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2002, 07:06:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bloom25:
[QB]Quake 3 (low resolutions)
Most Open GL games
Sysmark 2001 (internet apps)
Lightwaves (ray tracing)

Applications where P4 and Athlon XP are nearly equal:

Sysmark 2001 (office apps)
Quake 3 (high resolution)
3dMark 2001
Direct X 8 games

Applications where Athlon XP holds a significant edge over Northwood P4:

3dmark 2000
Science Mark
Direct X 7 games
Adobe Photoshop (even with special P4 patch)
3dStudio Max

[QB]

And just who cares about Quake a LOW resolutions when runing a P4 ???


The new P4 have an advantage over the AMD in total performance by a small margin (~10%).  Considering we are comparing a $300 AMD to a $600+ P4, well my wallet is still with AMD.  Once the DDR chipset for P4s comes out it will make them more attractive to many people.  Its going to take more than that to convince me to switch.

Offline Animal

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New Products and Future Products for 2002
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2002, 07:56:00 PM »
If intel gets their toejam back together and start making faster processors at lower prices, I may swing around and build my next system Intel.
But for now, AMD.

Offline bloom25

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New Products and Future Products for 2002
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2002, 08:19:00 PM »
I found another review at a major site: http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=45000277

This one has the Athlon XP 2000+ ahead over the 2.2 Ghz Northwood P4 by a nose.  They benchmark some different applications than tomshardware or anandtech did, so it's worth looking at.  It also shows the sometimes severe drop in performance the P4 has when on the i845 with SDRAM.

I personally still would pick the Athlon XP over the P4, if for nothing else the fact that it is over $200 cheaper AND the ram it requires is cheaper as well.  It also seems that Intel plans on changing the FSB of the P4 to 533 Mhz in a couple months, once again making current P4 boards non-upgradable.  :(  (Raising the FSB will improve performance some though, but the RAM needed will be more expensive.)

_____________________________ ________________

I forgot to mention that IBM has also released a new Deskstar harddrive series.  (120GXP)  Early reviews have been positive.

Offline jan

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Offline AKDejaVu

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New Products and Future Products for 2002
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2002, 12:32:00 PM »
The early Northwoods are a "pilot line" processor from the 860 process.  They've been running alongside the Tualitin and Willamette for a few months now... but are about to move into the spotlight.

Once they are done in major volume, speeds will jump up quickly.  FYI.. not major volume means only some 200,000 a week (plus or minus some).  I can't tell you what major volume is ;)

And work is already in full swing on the 1262 process... One I bet we see before AMD actually gets a .13u process up and going.

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Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2002, 12:33:00 PM »
B.T.W... USB 2.0 hasn't really made the list here... I do believe it is one of the more drastic hardware improvements on the market.

I'm still waiting for the serial IDE thing to come out tho... that one will win hands down. :)

AKDejaVu

Offline bloom25

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New Products and Future Products for 2002
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2002, 01:19:00 PM »
You are right DejaVu, I forgot about serial IDE!   :o  USB 2.0 is already out though, but should become more common this year.

I'd also expect to see a big jump in wireless devices using 802.11b, Bluetooth, or even the new very high speed 802.11a.

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2002, 01:40:00 PM »
*sigh*  and I was just about to get ready to start upgrading components...   ;)  I'd be out of date before it even shipped.
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Offline Lephturn

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New Products and Future Products for 2002
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2002, 07:32:00 AM »
LOL, welcome to the world of PC Gaming.  Nifty, that statement has been true in the PC world since it's inception, and it will continue to be true... well forever.  :D

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2002, 10:32:00 AM »
hehe, yeah, I know.  I can still squeak about it though.   ;)  I'll still go ahead and start the upgrade process.  Besides, it's not like the new AMD (0.13µ) chips will be out anytime in the next 6 months.  A current 1900+ should be sufficient for any gaming for the next few months.  Tho I will be waiting for the next cycle of vid cards, as it should drive prices of current cards down a bit, and if I can afford the newest top of the line, I'd go for that.   :)  I'm still on a GF2 GTS 64mb, and I snagged that when it was the top of the line card, so I've had it for awhile.
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Offline bloom25

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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2002, 11:28:00 AM »
Actually Nifty AMD is already sampling it's .13 micron Athlons ("Thourghbred"), but I'd say you probably won't see them on shelves until the end of March or mid-April.

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2002, 12:13:00 PM »
I'm guessing longer than that Bloom25.  There is a huge difference between being able to make a chip... and being able to make it in volume.

AMD still has problems generating its current chips.  Line yield for their stuff is what we would call horrid.  When you try to do that with .13 micron... it goes from horrid to virtually nil.

The chip is there and waiting.  The process will need some considerable work.

BTW... any idea how many chips need to be made to release a "new" processor to the market?

AKDejaVu

Offline Reschke

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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2002, 12:20:00 PM »
I remember reading something about that when the first Athlons came out Deja. I think it has to be over 50,000 for them to consider it as a release of a new processor. Although it was suggested that Intel released the first versions of the P4 at numbers less than 20,000 and scaled up production from there. HOWEVER I could be wrong on both accounts since it was nearly three years ago that I read that about the Athlons.

Has there been any speculation or rumors floating around on what the next Nvidia GPU is going to have memory wise with it? My guess is they will not go below 64MB. I have not seen anything other than the "speculated" date of announcement for the new core. This will probably be my next video card upgrade since my GF2 GTS is almost two years old now.

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Reschke ]
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Offline Tac

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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2002, 12:26:00 PM »
maybe ww2ol will work then  ;)