Author Topic: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH  (Read 1833 times)

Offline Brooke

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As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« on: August 03, 2010, 01:20:01 AM »
I've read a lot of military history, and I still come across things that, while possible in AH, I previously thought were impossible in real WWII planes -- yet amazingly did happened in WWII.

For example, it's possible in some AH planes to stay in the air with half a wing missing, but I figured it was probably not possible in a real WWII airplane.  Then I saw this in TBF/TBM Avenger units of World War 2, by Barret Tillman (great book) -- a TBM making it back towards its carrier:



The other day, I ran across another such item.  In AH, it is possible for a plane to take off from a CV while it is turning.  I figured that was an example of something that likely could not be done in a real WWII aircraft.  Then in Intrepid, by White and Gandt, I ran across this passage.

Paraphrasing the lead in to the story:  Charlie Mallory was a Hellcat pilot on Intrepid.  On one mission, when he was to take off with his squadron, his engine developed problems during his run up, and he got pulled off the launch.  He hurried down to the hangar deck to get in the ready spare for his squadron, but after he got strapped in and was ready to go up on the elevator, kamikazes started to come in.  Intrepid's crew of course started to focus on that -- and this is where we pick up the tale.

"Raise the damned elevator!" Charlie Mallory yelled over the noise of his idling engine.

No one on the hangar deck seemed interested in getting Mallory's Hellcat lifted up to the flight deck.  The chief petty officer standing on Mallory's wing just shook his head and climbed down.  Finally Mallory got another petty officer's attention and motioned that he wanted to go topside.  The petty officer nodded, then he too walked away.

Mallory stewed in his cockpit.  The sound of the anti-aircraft guns topside ws increasing in intensity.  Then he felt the deck tilting as the carrier heeled over in a hard turn.   Through the open hangar bay door he could see the other ships in Intrepid's formation.  Their guns were all firing.  The sky was filled with roiling black puffs of anti-aircraft fire.

Then he felt the elevator move.  Finally, he was going up.  Mallory tightened his straps and checked his switches.  When the elevator reached the flight deck, Malory gazed around and saw that the deck was mostly empty.  The strike aircraft had all been launched.  No one was paying any attention to him because they were pre-occupied with incoming kamikazes.  Even the launch officer was gone.

Mallory saw that from his position he had a clear run down the deck.  He considered his options for a moment, then made up his mind.  He shoved the throttle up, and the Hellcat headed down the flight deck.

The problem was that the deck was heeling over at a severe angle becasue the ship was in a hard turn to starboard.  he had to stomp hard on the right rudder to keep the fighter aimed for the bow, which was swinging to the right.

He almost made it to the bow.  Skidding and skittering, clawing for speed, the Hellcat drifted toward the left edge of the deck.  Seventy feet short of the bow, praying that he had enough airspeed, he yanked the fighter into the air.  The Hellcat sailed out over the left deck edge, hovered a few precarious seconds over the open water -- then flew away.

Few on Intrepid's deck noticed the unauthorized launch.  Nor did they care.  Every pair of eyes was now focused aft, on the two dark objects bearing down on Intrepid's stern.

[Moments later]

. . . The Zero and its 550-pound bomb smashed into Intrepid's flight deck behind the island, between number two and three elevators.  A plume of smoke and fire erupted from the deck.  The explosion pierced the flight deck, penetrated the gallery deck beneath, then spewed flame and shrapnel into the hangar deck below.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 01:24:37 AM by Brooke »

Offline Brooke

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2010, 03:39:38 AM »
By the way, the plane in the picture above is White 113, from VT-82 off the USS Benington (CV-20) in 1945.  He was hit by flak (losing a lot of the wing and 5 ft off the top of the aft fuselage) and was able to keep flying and make a water landing.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2010, 03:46:20 AM »
yeah but was he still flying at full speed like it happens in AH?

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Offline Brooke

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2010, 03:52:45 AM »
With half a wing on a plane in AH, I don't think you will be able to go as fast as if you had a full wing.  The extra drag of aileron and rudder needed to stay straight and level will slow you down some.

Offline Brooke

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2010, 04:10:35 AM »
To be clear, I don't think it's the cutting off of some of the end of the wing that would cause slowing down (unless it's very messy and draggy, with a lot of panels hanging out at odd angles, say).  For example, there are clipped wing versions of some planes (like clippped-wing Spitfires) that can be faster.  I think it's the extra control input creating drag.

Offline druski85

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2010, 09:43:53 AM »
That's a crazy story Brooke, particularly the end.  Thanks for sharing.  :aok

Offline Knite

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2010, 09:56:43 AM »
Should we add to the wishlist that CVs and other ships tilt and list as they turn? I think so!

Thanks for the story and picture Brooke. Always find it facinating how things happened back then. Different time with different people, that's for sure.
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Offline SHawk

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2010, 10:04:11 AM »
Looks to me like the right elevator of the plane in the picture is also missing. :O


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Offline Krupinski

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2010, 10:05:25 AM »
By the way, the plane in the picture above is White 113, from VT-82 off the USS Benington (CV-20) in 1945.  He was hit by flak (losing a lot of the wing and 5 ft off the top of the aft fuselage) and was able to keep flying and make a water landing.

I saw this somehwhere else too, only I read that it was caused by a collision with another TBM or TBF whatever you want to call it.

Offline fbWldcat

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2010, 10:09:06 AM »
Is flying with 1 1/2 wings called "knifing?" Or do you have to be flying the plane vertical?
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Offline CAP1

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2010, 10:40:27 AM »
yeah but was he still flying at full speed like it happens in AH?

semp

i know my p-38 isn't capable of top speed missing half of a wing.
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Offline ImADot

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2010, 11:11:10 AM »
Looks to me like the right elevator of the plane in the picture is also missing. :O

I think it's just the contrast (or lack of it) that's making it look like it's not there.  When I look close, it appears to be intact. I looked close with Photoshop and adjusted the contrast a bit:
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Offline MutleyBR

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2010, 11:59:52 AM »
Hi all!

Here's picture of a P-47, of the Brazilian Air Force, which hit a factory chimney doing ground attack in Italy and returned to base. :aok  :x

Mutley.  :salute



« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 12:07:09 PM by MutleyBR »
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Offline Brooke

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2010, 12:52:59 PM »
I saw this somehwhere else too, only I read that it was caused by a collision with another TBM or TBF whatever you want to call it.

The book lists it as flak damage, but it sure does *look* like collision damage to me, and that's what I thought it was looking at it.

Offline Brooke

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Re: As I read more, the more I see amazing realism in AH
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2010, 12:54:26 PM »
Hi all!

Here's picture of a P-47, of the Brazilian Air Force, which hit a factory chimney doing ground attack in Italy and returned to base. :aok  :x

Mutley.  :salute





Thanks for posting that!  That's another great pic! <S>