Research of the Spit 16

[THRASH99]

As most of you know, I had complained about the spit 16 a while back for being a dweeb/noob machine, over the past year they have gotten relatively easy thanks to the Main Arena. I've been looking at some serious data about the plane itself. Now I am here to say why it shouldn't be in the game. As I remember, a pic that AK-AK had posted on my last forum about the spit 16 had a Canadian soldier standing in front of it with "confirmed kills" spray painted on the side of the cockpit. Those "confirmed kills" everyone keeps thinking were aerial kills, they're not. As I was looking on the web for Spit 16 data, I came across this particular website.

http://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/aircraft/SpitfireMkXVI.cfm

As I read the Spitfire XVI was built late 1944 and saw it's first action March 24,1945. At the time the spit 16 was used, it had been a month before the war had ended, American and Russian forces were closing in on Berlin. A flight of four spit 16s took off for an armed reconnaissance mission to Berlin. Only carring 2 250lb bombs and a long range belly tank. Told to bomb rail targets and strafe german aircraft. The spitfire 16s continued these sorties flying only 12 missions during its only six weeks of operations, an only 23 hours and 55 minutes total combat service. At the time, Germany had lost alot of there experienced pilots that had been replaced with young enlisted pilots with no experience. Germany had hardly any planes due to successful bombing raids by the Americans which had caused very many factories to be in ruins. The video I have set is about the luftwaffe "with" the very little planes they had for the mission to try and create more planes if the bombings were to stop, but the bombings didn't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmDYdfb02tc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOHRdvxEL3Q
 In this video as you watched, it describes basically everything I'm talking about, it all makes sense if you read/listen to it slowly and try to put the pieces together by yourself from this forum. The spitfire 16 in this case was only getting ground kills strafing germans targets on airfields, which is why everyone thought that it saw air to air combat, which it didn't. Now, as I read that the Spitfire XVI only saw 23 hours 55 minutes of total combat service for only six weeks of bombing/attacking armed reconniassance missions and it's in Aces High, it either 1) needs to be taken out of the game for very little combat service or 2) be highly perked. This is what I "HOPE" makes sense for everyone to whom reads it as I was trying to say before, just didn't have the data for it.

THRASH99

BTW: I searched for Spitfire 16 on the aircraft/vehicles and wishlist, couldn't find one single wish and/or comment about putting it in the game. The only thing I saw that had spitfire added, was the XIV model which was added in 2000 or 2001.

[AWwrgwy]

Corky Jr!!!

(need a "Bat Signal"_© with a Spit silhouette)


wrongway

[Krusty]

Fail.


They only call it a spit16 in-game to differentiate it from the SpitIX we already have.

Calling it a SpitLFIXe gets a bit complicated.

It's identical to a later spit9 with clipped wings.

In fact it's also nearly identical in performance to the Spit8.


And, also in fact the criteria for KILLS isn't so much important for a GROUND attack plane, no? Many (most?) spit16s were tasked to ground attack, hence the rockets.

I'll be the first to decry them for being a UFO, but don't knock the plane's history. Just focus on how it is in this game (it IS just a game, you know) rather than the real war.

[lyric1]

Well Since you listed RAAF 453 squadron they were in fact tasked with attacking V2 rocket locations.

Important targets as far as the British were concerned & they did suffer some aircraft losses to flack.

You better be careful what you ask for if they did get rid of it. There are plenty of other Spitfire models out there if included to the game they would be far superior to the Spit XVI. Then you would be on the BBS no end as to how dweeby or some other issue.

[jamdive]

If i read that article correctly, the flying time is for that one spit portrayed in the picture, not an accumulation of total hours flown by all spit 16s.

Ive also read somewhere that the spit 16 was not the first to get clipped wings. To my understanding it was to increase the roll rate to make it able to counter the roll rate of the 190. But who knows.

[dtango]

Thrash99:

1) The March 24, 1945 date is for the specific Spitfire S/N TB863.  Moved from UK to NZ in 1989, then to AU in 2006 and now part of the Temora Aviation collection.  You can read more about it here:
http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/article.asp?id=mkxvi

2) Spitfire Mk XVI are Spitfire Mk IX LF's fitted with Packard 266 engine vs. a RR Merlin 66. That's why they changed the designation.  Mk IX LF's were in action much sooner than 1945.  From wwiiaircraftperformance.org the following flight tests suggest that Mk IX LF's were operational in March 1944.
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/ma648.html

3) If you want to be pedantic about it here's a source that talks about Mk XVI's being in production in Sep 1944, with the bubble canopy version starting production in Feb 1945.
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_spitfire_mkXVI.html

Cheers,
Tango

[Ack-Ack]

If i read that article correctly, the flying time is for that one spit portrayed in the picture, not an accumulation of total hours flown by all spit 16s.

Ive also read somewhere that the spit 16 was not the first to get clipped wings. To my understanding it was to increase the roll rate to make it able to counter the roll rate of the 190. But who knows.

Each thread he keeps using the same plane to make his point about the Spitfire Mk XVI and each time we keep telling him that he's citing the war time record of a single Spitfire Mk XVI (the one that is shown in the first link he posted).  For some reason he either completely ignores it or it just doesn't sink in.

ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

As most of you know, I had complained about the spit 16 a while back for being a dweeb/noob machine, over the past year they have gotten relatively easy thanks to the Main Arena. I've been looking at some serious data about the plane itself. Now I am here to say why it shouldn't be in the game. As I remember, a pic that AK-AK had posted on my last forum about the spit 16 had a Canadian soldier standing in front of it with "confirmed kills" spray painted on the side of the cockpit. Those "confirmed kills" everyone keeps thinking were aerial kills, they're not. As I was looking on the web for Spit 16 data, I came across this particular website.

http://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/aircraft/SpitfireMkXVI.cfm

As I read the Spitfire XVI was built late 1944 and saw it's first action March 24,1945. At the time the spit 16 was used, it had been a month before the war had ended, American and Russian forces were closing in on Berlin. A flight of four spit 16s took off for an armed reconnaissance mission to Berlin. Only carring 2 250lb bombs and a long range belly tank. Told to bomb rail targets and strafe german aircraft. The spitfire 16s continued these sorties flying only 12 missions during its only six weeks of operations, an only 23 hours and 55 minutes total combat service. At the time, Germany had lost alot of there experienced pilots that had been replaced with young enlisted pilots with no experience. Germany had hardly any planes due to successful bombing raids by the Americans which had caused very many factories to be in ruins. The video I have set is about the luftwaffe "with" the very little planes they had for the mission to try and create more planes if the bombings were to stop, but the bombings didn't.

You misunderstood what was written.  The description is for that particular Spitfire Mk XVI and is not a history of the entire production series. 

Rego: VH-XVI       Military S/N: TB863 
 
History

This Spitfire will be one of only two flying Spitfire's in Australia.  Both of them are owned by and based at Temora Aviation Museum.

"This" is in reference to the Spitfire Mk XVI that is pictured on the site you linked to (http://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/aircraft/SpitfireMkXVI.cfm), you keep making this same mistake with each thread you post on this subject.  How many times must we explain that you are confusing the service record of a single Spitfire Mk XVI with the entire production series?


Supermarine Spitfire Mk. XVI, SM179 9N-T ‘Lady Jane’
F/Lt Peter Hillwood
127 Squadron
The Netherlands, winter 1944-1945


Here is an operational summary of the above Spitfire Mk XVI.  I've bolded the dates.

Spitfire Mk. XVI SM179 was built by Vickers Armstrong at Castle Bromwich and was delivered to No. 9 Maintenance Unit on 19 October 1944. It was officially taken on strength by No. 127 Squadron on 9 November 1944. The first time it was used operationally was on 11 November 1944 when it was flown by Flight Lieutenant Howard Truscott on a mission to escort bombers to Oldenzaal, Holland. Unfortunately he had to return early due to radio telephone failure.

Later on, SM179 became the personal aircraft of Flight Lieutenant Peter Hillwood DFC and was named Lady Jane. It continued to be used by the squadron until it was finally damaged in an accident on 11 April 1945. While landing at B.85 Schijndel, SM179 collided with another Spitfire, TD144 flown by Flight Lieutenant Parish. The pilot of SM179, Sergeant Emrys Williams was unhurt in the incident. Following the incident, the aircraft was transferred to 420 Repair and Salvage Unit where it was classified Category E and subsequently scrapped.

CorkyJr will be posting shortly with more examples of Spitfire Mk XVIs in addition to the history of this variant. Hopefully this time it will sink it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmDYdfb02tc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOHRdvxEL3Q

What have already said about using YouTube as a source?  Nothing in those videos back up anything you claim in regars to the Spitfire Mk XVI.

In this video as you watched, it describes basically everything I'm talking about, it all makes sense if you read/listen to it slowly and try to put the pieces together by yourself from this forum. The spitfire 16 in this case was only getting ground kills strafing germans targets on airfields, which is why everyone thought that it saw air to air combat, which it didn't. Now, as I read that the Spitfire XVI only saw 23 hours 55 minutes of total combat service for only six weeks of bombing/attacking armed reconniassance missions and it's in Aces High, it either 1) needs to be taken out of the game for very little combat service or 2) be highly perked. This is what I "HOPE" makes sense for everyone to whom reads it as I was trying to say before, just didn't have the data for it.

THRASH99

If you were able to understand what was in those videos and figure out why during the last months of the war planes like the Spitfire Mk XVI were used in ground attack sorties.  It was because there was a severe lack of Luftwaffe planes flying for the Spitfire Mk XVIs to engage and this wasn't something only the Spitfire Mk XVI experienced.  Mustangs, Jugs, Lightnings, Typhoons, Tempests all had to sling bombs in the last months because there was hardly anything flying to shoot down.  However, this doesn't mean the Spitfire Mk XVI never got any air to air kills because that is false, as the Spitfire Mk XVI did engage Luftwaffe fighters and shoot them down.

BTW: I searched for Spitfire 16 on the aircraft/vehicles and wishlist, couldn't find one single wish and/or comment about putting it in the game. The only thing I saw that had spitfire added, was the XIV model which was added in 2000 or 2001.

So?  Planes and vehicles aren't added because someone asked for it in the Wishlist forums and hardly any evidence the plane shouldn't have been added.

ack-ack

[Guppy35]

You guys make a Spit history dweeb proud

One example.  October 18, 1944.  602 Squadron re-equipped with Spitfire XVIs.  Their most famous run in XVIs was the low level attack on "Shell" house in the Netherlands that house Gestapo Offices.  Maxie Sutherland and the boys made that run.  We have a 602 Squadron XVI skin from that run thanks to Kev.

That puts it about the same time as the 109D9. Guess we better lose that too

Yeah right

Then there are the full span wing XVIs of 127 Squadron in the Fall of 44.  As folks mentioned.  Same as a Spitfire LFIXe but with the American made Packard Merlin 266 instead of the Rolls Royce Merlin 66.  Same performance, came off the line at the same time in places.  And yes the XVI was in action in 44.

[Karnak]

BTW: I searched for Spitfire 16 on the aircraft/vehicles and wishlist, couldn't find one single wish and/or comment about putting it in the game. The only thing I saw that had spitfire added, was the XIV model which was added in 2000 or 2001.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,153344.0.html


Searching for the term "Spitfire XVI" posted by Karnak in the Aircraft and Vehicles forum produced 4 pages of hits.

[Guppy35]

At the time many of us suggested, for variety to use the XVI instead of an IXe since the performances were identical but it would make for a nice breakdown of 43 IX, 44 VIII and 45 XVI for the Merlin Spits.

We'd like to think our logic might have had some influence on Pyro's thinking in designating it the LFXVI.  We've of course apologized many times now because of silly threads like this.  Had HTC named it the LFIXe, there would probably never have been this nashing of teeth that  goes on with the XVI.

Again we apologize Pyro

[uptown]

I just want to know if they flopped like fish in the real world like they do in the game. I'd like to see that in a WW2 gun camera just once.


Sorry for the hijack. Just needed to say that 

[SlapShot]

I just want to know if they flopped like fish in the real world like they do in the game. I'd like to see that in a WW2 gun camera just once.


Sorry for the hijack. Just needed to say that 

Hopefully they can also find films of 109s, 190s, and P-51s doing the same thing.

[Lusche]

That puts it about the same time as the 109D9. Guess we better lose that too

Must be a super-secret variant.. I only knew about 109D-1, D-2 and D-3. What' the command to unlock that plane? 

[RTHolmes]

sure delete the XVI, then replace it with a clipped LF IX.

Imagine a XVI with 4x .303s instead of the 2x .50s. then go fly it in MW ...

Is that what you really want?