Research of the Spit 16

[Masherbrum]

With the drag that the pony had on its wings, why is it that it can't stay in a turn w/ flaps with spixteen? The spixteen out corners it like nothing. Why is that spixteen out accelerates the pony even though they have the same engine? Last but not least, why is it that the spixteen out climbs the pony like nothing too? Even due to the less weight that the spixteen has, talk to any historians about the planes and they'll tell you that the pony was way better than spitfires, talk to any pilot who flew spitfires and 51s during the war and they will tell that pony was a dominate fighter over the spits. So my question is for this, why are the later spitfires, 14 and 16, better than the pony?  

List the "said Historians" please.  This is nothing but a shot in the dark from your end.   This is a grossly inaccurate statement.  

[MiloMorai]

Didn't recon Spits photograph Berlin?

[Guppy35]

Didn't recon Spits photograph Berlin?

Yep, but minus guns and armor.  Larger oil tanks and wings filled with fuel. Not at their best for dogfighting

[Karnak]

THRASH99,

12,000lbs vs 8,000lbs on the same power is not a slight difference.  The Spitfire Mk XIV raises it up to about 8,500lbs, but on significantly more power.

Why would you expect the 12,000lb fighter to climb, accelerate or turn as well?  Don't get your history from "The History Channel" if you care about accuracy.  The Spitfire was a significantly better fighter in a duel than the P-51 was, but that doesn't help when the fighting is out of range of the Spitfire.  There were many American Spitfire pilots who much preferred the Spitfire over the Mustang and about the best you get from them is that at least the P-51 could get them to the fight.

[MiloMorai]

P-51D

Empty weight: 7,635 lb (3,465 kg)
Loaded weight: 9,200 lb (4,175 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 12,100 lb (5,490 kg)

[dtango]

THRASH99:

With the similar engine why does the Spitfire Mk XVI turn better and climb faster than the P-51?
Because of fundamental aerodynamics and the impact of weight (as others have mentioned).  Increasing weight reduces both turn capability and rate of climb.  Turn capability is impacted because there is less lift available to be used for turning.  Rate of climb is reduced because increasing weight decreases the amount of specific excess power available to climb with.  Convince yourself by understanding the aerodynamics or looking at actual rate of climb charts.

What about the impact of laminar flow wings?  
The laminar flow wings like the ones on the P-51 have lower parasite drag compared to others.  It’s one of the reasons for the higher top speed of the Mustang.  However induced drag increases with g-load and weight.  In maneuver the lower parasite drag of a laminar wing is dwarfed by the increase in induced drag.  Between a P-51 and a Spitfire turning at the same g-load the P-51 will have greater induced drag assuming it has greater weight.

Why was the P-51 an OUTSTANDING plane in real life compared to how it performs in Aces High?
In Aces High the value of a plane that has great top speed at altitude and long range is greatly diminished because of the type of air combat we have, primarily prolonged medium to low altitude twisting and turning.  80% of kills in real life happened without the other guy knowing what hit them.  2ndly typically combat lasted for mere seconds and then the sky was clear.  In real life the P-51’s strengths gave it the range to find the enemy and then the speed to bounce them, dictate the fight and get away.  The Mustang excelled in an air war of attrition in the ETO and came in at just the right time especially between Mar – Jun of 1944.

Aces High is a game with high fidelity flight modeling.  Don’t make the mistake however to think that the type of virtual air combat we typically have is anything like it was in the ETO.  There’s a difference in terms of what was decisive to the air war in the ETO compared to what is decisive in Aces High air combat and they are not the same.

[BulletVI]

As we all know the Spit XVI is just a Spit VIII With The wings clipped and uprated engine performance. Now i believe that the Spit XVI was Meant to be Mainly used as a replacement for the Spit VIII out in Burma ( the Pacific Theatre ) To allow them the use of High altitude for Escorting B-29's  To defend them from the KI84's. And also the fact that if the European war lasted another year the B17's Where to be replaced by the B29's ( But that never happened )

Try looking up the Spit XVI in Burma and you will find it saw more combat over Burma against the Japanese air force. As even the B29's didnt need them as the P38 filled the escort role for the B29's. But even these Spits where actually hybrids as they where Spit 8' upgraded with Grippen engines and Clipped wings. As we never really just scraped our old variants. We if possible upgraded them.
Like most MkV's where new MkII's And MkIV's with conversion Kits.

But hey i may be wrong

[thrila]

there's no maybe about it- your first sentence is fail.  

[RTHolmes]

you're just making this stuff up arent you bullet.

[sandwich]

you're just making this stuff up arent you bullet.

He can't be making this stuff up.

It has to be correct.

I mean, he did serve in the RAF and was an aircraft engineer.

[Masherbrum]

you're just making this stuff up arent you bullet.

 

[BulletVI]

you're just making this stuff up arent you bullet.

Nope my ways of thinking to some degree of logic lol as we all know the mk16 is a high alt version of the spit  and would have been capable of escort duty to the b29s in the pacific  and if the European theatre was to drag on for another year  b29s would have been flying from Britain and that is a fact  as several base that b17's where flying from the runways where extened to accomidate the b29 And the info i have just read says the mk 16 spit with a pessurised cockpit system was expected to reach 42000 feet but was limited to 38000 sorry cant link you to it its from a book ihve that i read the service ceiling at

[RTHolmes]

almost right. as we all know the spit 16Mk was a navalised version of the macchi C666 which the germans developed in 1951 for their attack on pearl mountain.

let that be an end to it.

[Plazus]

gobble gobble bawk bawk!!!!

My IQ dropped 5 points. I should not have read that.

[BulletVI]

Here we go from the book im reading is a list of spitfire variants there is a MkXVI listed and here's what it says. just gives you engine model and armament and wing type


Spitfire XVI : MkIX with a Packard Merlin 266; F or LF span; usually 'C' or 'E' guns; many with teardrop canopy ( total 1,054 )

And there is a picture of the Spitfire FR.MK 18E it has the same wing type and armament as the MkXVI and its a post war version serving with No 28 Squadron Far East Air Force Royal Air Force Kai Tak, Hong Kong, 1950

So it seems that the Mk XVI did have a very short combat career in Europe But not in the Far East