Are there Flight School Training Programs in Aces High? If not, can one be made?

[InCrypt]

Is there a set of Flight School Training Programs in Aces High? If not, can one be set up?

Last week I took off from Aces High and flew Microsoft Flight Sim X for a while. Funny thing – I remembered how much I really enjoy just flying. Then, I went in for FSO and my frustration level started to rise. Over the course of the weekend, and in direct proportion to frustration level I began to turn from frustrated, to crabby, then annoyed, aggravated, short-tempered,  angry, and finally ragefull InCrypt.

I have heard Aces High being analogized to a drug – worse than crack – and in this one aspect it is defiantly true with me: Personality change. My family does not like it when I fly Aces High, because I always turn into a nasty grouch when I’ve been in it. My wife said that I was pleasant last week; I sat and talked with her and the kids, I was excited about where I had flown in FSX. Over the weekend this changed profoundly. Since I prefer to measure my time in Aces High as the integral emergence of one divorce event to the next, I can say that I am at about 0.8 Divorce units.

In an effort to avoid reaching Divorce Unit 1.0 I have spent considerable time trying to ascertain the source of my problem. Some things that I have considered:
1)   Is it that I almost always fly MidWar?
2)   Is it that I am getting shot down by the same small group of players -  ALL the time?
3)   Is it the guys in the squad I fly with? (That one I answered immediately: Absolutely not, they are an awesome bunch of guys, and if anything my frustration – oozing out over the radio with bad language and defeatist attitude – is actually a detriment to them.)

These posibilies, and many more, have been inspected, analyzed, and each rejected in turn. My current theory, newly formed, is that I get frustrated because have no intermediate measures of success, and no road-map to achieve mastery. The open ended nature of the game is great, if you’ve got 10 years in and have already mastered it. But from a new-guy’s perspective, and I’ve been in for seven months now, it can suck – big time. “The Learning Curve is steep” I’ve heard many say. That being true, it results in new guys being cannon fodder for the more experienced, and I haven’t found that very enjoyable. I’ve also heard that this “Learning time” can last from 1 to 2 years.  A bleak prospect at best. But, I figured, if I just poured time at the problem then I could short cycle the learning curve and get there sooner.

In that effort I’ve tried to use the resources available, I’ve been in the TA, and I’ve been working with the trainers. I’ve talked with GhostH, Morfiend, FLS, Rodent, Mace and BigRat. I worked extensively GhostH on turn fighting, with BigRat trying to sort out the F4U, with Mace on ACM. Have I improved? Yeah, I suppose so. The stats say I have. GhostH graduated me, BigRat and FLS both say all I need now is stick time, and Mace says he estimates I’m at about RAG ACM level – in Navy Parlance. But on the whole, my Aces High experience really feels more like I’m just floundering around hoping some day I get it.

What I really am looking for, however, is full out FLIGHT TRAINING! I’m looking for a program that processes new guys into competent fighters. A program which has instructors working with you, in some form of structured training program, offering classes over a period of time, providing training materials, setting goals with progressive levels of difficulty; assigning homework and such, so that I can see, feel, and experience progress. I’ve been looking for this, talking to the trainers, reading the post, purchasing books, but have yet to really find it. I’ve even been looking in the real world, going as far as contacting a local flight school asking about ACM training for Combat Flight Simulators – (And boy, that turned into a very weird conversation!)
As I’ve experienced it, the current system of training in Aces High is more geared to “What’s your problem tonight?”, and though the Trainers are all Awesome in this respect, there is a void I see which still needs to be filled, a flight school. I would envision different levels of classes, from those learning how to fly (Basic Flight Class 15 weeks), to those who need to master BCM and ACM (RAG ACM Class 15 weeks), all the way to Masters and PhD programs (Top Gun Class 15 weeks).  Probably need a couple of trainers who can evaluate and place prospective candidates in the appropriate class and such. Because in real life, you don’t throw raw recruits into the deep end with the 10 year sharks – It's a quick way to get rid of new recruits!


As you can see, the angst and pain this has been causing has prompted me to put considerable thought into how to remediate the problem, for both myself, and anyone else who finds themselves in a similar situation – trying to avoid Divorce Unit X.0 while trying to also master Aces High.

[Dragon]

Other than Rolex's classes, which I have yet to be able to attend   , I don't think so.


"I’m looking for a program that processes new guys into competent fighters."


Please let us know if you find one, I'll sign up with ya.

[Jayhawk]

An interesting prospect that has clearly been on your mind for a while.  I also would like to see a change in the training options.  Remember though, the trainer's are volunteers and they give up their time to help people.  So a "school" would probably have to run completely by volunteers.  In essence you're asking for a extensive program that people would actually pay money for if they took it in a classroom. 

The second issue is that how do you choose what to teach.  Everyone comes into the game with a different level of experience.  If they chose to enter a training program, do they have the option to ignore a section on lift and drag if they understand the concepts? How are lessons taught?  Is this an actual instructor teaching them or pre-programmed like in FSX?

I don't think it's a terrible idea, but these are speed bumps that would have to be handled.  If you really want to see this happen, I think it's starts with you (which I suppose this post is the start).  I would like to see a more detailed plan about topics that would be taught, how they would be taught, etc.

If I were doing it, I think I'd set up a separate website, organize "lessons" how you want.  Then I'd set up to focus on one lesson per week, offer multiple times during the week where people could come "fly" the lesson in the TA with an instructor.

Finally though, I'll offer this advice.  Just make sure you've having fun while playing.  Try to find something that you really enjoy, even if you're dying.  I fly bombers a lot, I always have a blast in the 5 inch guns on ships.

[bcadoo]

Because the trainers are a volunteer corps I think the best solution would be to have them create a film series for those who are interested to download and absorb.  That should take somebody up to the intermediate level and then maybe consider some 1-on-1 training at that point to work out questions specific to them.

Films could also be made on specific topics or aircraft (like Agent360's 109 series) for those interested in mastering a certain maneuver or aircraft.  

[SIK1]

There are several training films out there. I know Agent360 did several using the 109, that were pretty good. The link doesn't appear to work so you might ask him if he can hook you up. Or if it's ok with him I could send you a copy of mine.

bbosen did one: http://techvideoreview.com/FlightSimMovies/AcesHigh/Training/AcesHighTrainingByPeabodyPage03Full.htm I haven't checked it out but I heard it was another good one.

It seems that The Fugitive was working on something like this as well, but I don't recall how far along he got with it.

[flatiron1]

The answer is simple InCrypt.

Join the Black Sheep!!!

[The Fugitive]

The problem as mentioned is ALL of the trainers are volunteers. They give what free time they can to help out. What your asking for is a daily/weekly class to be given. Along with this goes class work, time to set up a class plan, flight time and so on. Most instructor get paid big bucks to do this in real life and you basically want the same thing for a game, for free. Personally, what you invision isn't ever going to happen.

Now, watered down ideas might get rolling. Films sets are a great way to start. My Flash tutorials (which were lost in the Trainings site big melt down, but will hopefully be added again soon) were geared more towards a basic newbi. General "how to's". Agents 109 series is great.

I think what you have to work on is the "why" you are getting so grumpy. If the game isn't fun, YOUR doing something wrong. I have been flying for 16 years counting AW and AH. I still am not one of the top pilots, but I know why and I accept it. My problem is I suck!    Well at least my aim does, and my timing is a bit off, but it's all due to lack of stick time. I don't have the time to put in that these hot shot do. I know if I flew 100+ hours a week in a month I'd be one of those hot shots but it just isn't in the cards. But I'm ok with that. Sure there are time I get frustrated,, like I time a perfect rope and just don't hit the sucker as I drop past him. But it never gets so bad that my family has to hide from me.

This is a game and it's suppose to be fun. What should be driving you is fun and some friendly competition.

[InCrypt]

Much of what’s been said I suspected and feared. Two quotes I wanted to answer:
Posted by The Jayhawk

In essence you're asking for a extensive program that people would actually pay money for if they took it in a classroom

And
Posted by The Fugitive

What your asking for is a daily/weekly class to be given. Along with this goes class work, time to set up a class plan, flight time and so on. Most instructor get paid big bucks to do this in real life and you basically want the same thing for a game, for free

I acknowledge that this is asking a lot, which is why I didn’t think it had happened already. But I never expected something like this to be free. I collect guns, I’ve build a sim pit you can check out in this thread. So I’m accustom to spending some money on my hobbies. What was surprising was that my wife is the one who was looking up flight schools! She wanted me to call and talk to instructors, because she’ll happily to pay fro me to get instruction if it will stop me from being so grouchy!

Now as for the classes.

I was thinking of something like Online class room material – only accessible during the class session, and credentials will only be given to those who have signed up. There would be two to three sessions a week 1 classroom instruction, 1-2 labs.

For Beginners flight class, topics such as – concepts of lift/thrust/drag, taxiing, taking off & landing, landing patterns, Airport runway designations, holding a constant heading, wind effects, crabbing, trimming the aircraft.  Basically all the stuff that you learn in Ground School with some practical labs.

For intermediate (This is where I’m at) RAG or FRS (Using navy terms here but we’re already starting to get out of my depth). Turn circles, merging, Post merge tactics, gunnery, Air-to-ground strike aircraft, Bombers, Bomber-gunners. The 1v1 fight Equivalent aircraft. 1v1 fight dissimilar aircraft. 1v1 double disadvantaged. Low Vs. High wing loading, how to use a low wing loaded aircraft to turn fight. How to use a high wing-loaded aircraft to Boom-n-zoom. How and when to transition from energy to angles tactics, and back.
Basically all the stuff that teaches you how to use your aircraft as a weapon. This class may even be broken into two separate segments, and you can’t go to the second till you take the first, or test out with an instructor.

For Masters. Top Gun? All the stuff that you need to know to go from a killer pilot to a master of air space and time. Also included would be how to teach others, so if your squad sends you, you can then go back and teach them (Kind-a what Top-Gun is really meant for)


The above classes are not meant for the two-week trial baby. Most players may not even use them. Some may choose to go their own way for a while, and use them if they hit a wall. They may successfully use the training programs already in place, and do fine with that. But for those, like myself, who are looking to jump in to the Aces High arena, and like me did not come from a military background where they would have gotten this training, for what ever reason (Mine is that I’m legally blind), then it’s there for them to do, and quickly and consistently past all the hurtles and stick points I’m snagging on as I essentially move through this process self taught. Now, I’ve never taken flight training, so I don’t know how much lessons cost, but I would imagine a good starting place would probably be some fraction of that cost – it is a hobby after all!

[ImADot]

I think asking for an in-depth, comprehensive course on flight dynamics like what you'd get from an FAA-accredited school is a bit much to ask from any online flight sim crowd - even though many here (certainly NOT me) are pilots and certified flight instructors.

What would be nice is to have some of what you've asked for:  basics of flight and game controls, basic/intermediate/advanced combat tactics [air and possibly ground], presented in a series of downloadable videos/pdf files with perhaps weekly live classroom [flight] time with someone qualified to teach - remember that everyone is a volunteer.  All of this of course within the context of the game Aces High.  There should be no mistaking that this is for playing and enjoying the game - and not to let you go to your local muni and tell them you know what you're doing and can you please borrow an airplane for a couple of hours.

I'd have no idea how much anyone would feel comfortable charging or paying for this; and I certainly have no idea how you'd arrange for such payment [and would HTC get a cut?].

If one takes these courses and "passes the test" to get "credentials", what does that get you?  A cool graphic for your BBS account signature?  The right to grab a CV from anyone?  A symbol next to your name on the roster for all to see?  I'm not trying to be a smart-ass jerk, just curious.  I've always enjoyed flight sims, ever since my first home computer in the mid-80's chugging away at a whopping 8Mhz and probably 15-20fps with 256 colors.  The more complex the sim, the more I liked it.  And I think some kind of structured course would add to the experience here, but we must remember this is a game and not training for real life.

 

[InCrypt]

I’m in complete agreement that in no way should any one ever regard this as, substitute this for, or consider such lessons as real flight or combat training. Sure, a lot of the principals overlap, and are directly applicable, but it’s a game. As for cool avatars, graphics, or any such awards and certificates, I’m sure some of that could be made available. As for Hi-tech getting a cut – I’m posting this here hoping he’ll make it happen! When I mentioned this post to my wife she immediately said, $200 would be reasonable. My jaw dropped – I had been thinking $50 to $70! I will leave that kind of pricing decision to some kind of market research guru.
Ultimately, what I want is to be successful, competitive, and more than just cannon fodder for the great masses who have more time and experience. It’ll be good for me, and it will make me more of a challenge for them – thus increasing everyone’s enjoyment!

[Jayhawk]

Who's in your market for this kind of service?  People like training, but I think very few people would actually be willing to pay for it, at least for this kind of game.

[ImADot]

What would be really cool, is if HTC got the private H2H arena system up and running for paid subscribers.  Perhaps then we could set up a private training arena with just a trainer and student in the arena, and there would be enough bandwidth to allow the student to ride along with the trainer and see all the controls moving as the instructer performed maneuvers and vice versa.

[Big Rat]

InCrypt,

Someting like this was attempted before but never got off the ground.  I believe the main reason was having trainers be able to devote the required amount of time to it on a regular basis.  As mentioned before we are all volanteers, and being able to put much more in then an hour a day in the TA is tough for most of us.  Also keep in mind not all trainers are good at all things.  I'm not very good at the technical aspects of this game, such as configuring your sound cards, video cards, etc.  I hardly ever level bomb so I'm not great at that either.  Teaching ACM, I can do that fairly well in most of the plane set, and think I'm pretty good teaching with the F4U's.  So you would need a fairly large trainer base in order to draw all the info nescessary for a school on a regular basis and have the coverage needed.  

I have the feeling that you may be expecting way too much out of yourself, more then is actually possible in this game.  I find the root cause to a lot of good players frustrations is that they tend to force a bad situation.  For example I know you can handle a hog very well, but taking it and forcing an engagement with a P-38 or late 109 that has both alt and speed on you is a bad gamble, if either has a clue how to fight verticle.  And you have to assume they do or you'll get killed more times then not.  Now some players don't mind getting killed and have fun forcing these fights, I have no problem with this and have squaddies like this.  I like you do not like to be killed, seems to much like failure for my taste.  So I tend to take in the situation for a bit before commiting or not.  Learning to read an engagement situation is pure experience, at least I haven't been able to figure out any way to teach it.  I also think on average you are going to run into better sticks more often in Midwar as a percentage of the player base.  So this may be part of the frustration.

Also you may want to try other aspects of the game such as GVing, ground attack, etc.  I spend a lot of time flying in the TA so I spend most of my time doing this stuff in the Ma's.  It relaxes me, without the stress that I put on myself when flying.  I know I'm not the greatest in a tank, so I don't get mad when I blow up (no stress).  Put me in a hog in the MA's I have stress, I feel like I have something to prove every time I up one. Maybe your putting too much pressure on yourself when flying and that's what's taking the fun out of it.  If you want to GV with me some time for a change of pace in midwar, or any arena, just send me a PM, you may enjoy it as a change.

 
BigRat      

[InCrypt]

What's the market? Of that I am not sure. I want it, I'd be willing to pay for it - How much depends on what I'm getting. Been my experience that I'm an average Joe, and what I want/look for, usually is already out there - I just have to find it.
This is a first for me that I go looking for something and someone hasn't already figured out how to design, implement, and sell it before I get there. When I started this thread I was expecting a response that went more like "Yeah, we did that X years ago and threw it away for X, Y, and Z problems that you didn't think about." Imagine my surprise when I'm seeing, "Hey, sound's great, when you find it let me know so I can sign up!"

-- Edit
And there it is. BigRat came in with my expected answer while I was typing this out. I recognize that I do put a lot of pressure on; its part-and-parcel of my makeup, perhaps even a character defect. GhostH and I have had some long conversations about this, and have concluded that Aces High is an amplifier for character defects. (Another reference to its Crack-like nature)

[Tordon22]

The reading "theory" material on everything from flight, to score, to basic and advanced ACM is all out there for free and in great detail. The fun part is reading, understanding, and through numerous flight hours and mistakes learning how to correctly apply the theory to any situation.

The fun part is the journey to becoming a top stick.

Yes, the learning curve is "steep". But it isn't impossible and it sure doesn't take 10 years to get good. You mention getting angry and frustrated a lot. Realize that by doing so all your really doing is diminishing the possible "experience" returns on your stick time. It's important to realize when your getting frustrated with the learning and take a break. If you don't, AH burn out will come quick.

With all that said, I've been in your spot before. I've kept with it and seen some amazing results, burned myself out a few times, and met some cool people. Here are a few things off the top of my head that've really helped me but that you didn't mention in your post.

• Gunnery- You don't always have to pay for your mistakes if you can hit the bad guy consistently . There are a bunch of threads about offline practice routines, and I can vouch that they really work (if your consistant with your practice).
  
  
• Discover the good sticks and ask appropriate questions- working with the trainers is great, but there are plenty of skilled guys who aren't trainers who are always willing to help or answer questions.

• Film viewer- I personally am a visual learner, film viewer is an awesome tool. If you start filming your sorties and watching yourself, you can really see your mistakes. Also any time you spend with a trainer is yours forever! You can go back and think over everything that was said. Sometimes it's hard to grasp a concept immediately while flying around. Another thing to help you is to visit threads like BE's dueling tourney and download the films others have posted. Watching those can also be a really great source of help. If your looking for more of MA type flying, those films also are around if you're willing to dig. One I know of for sure is Snaphook showing a newer guy how to be more aware and successful while flying a 109 in the MW arena. That could be right up your alley.

• Find a friend with similar skill- This is probably the BEST thing I've ever done. If you can get a squad mate or friend who's about your level to spend some time with you in the DA, it can be amazingly fun and educational. You're free to experiment and play with different techniques and strategies in an environment where frustration shouldn't really be a problem.

• You don't have to be some 'godlike' stick to have MA success- The MA is all about decision making. If you make solid decisions, you never have to "fight" if you don't want to. There are plenty of people who are in the top 100 of score every month and couldn't last 3 turns in a 1v1 with some of the people who don't even crack the top 2000 in score. Purely decision making and understanding your environment.

A program like what you're asking for I don't think will ever get off the ground, but I do wish you good luck. You'll get better if you really want to, just remember to focus on the flying and not the fact that you won/lost. There's always another cartoon plane for you to auger .