Author Topic: lucky to be alive  (Read 3136 times)

Offline Lepape2

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2010, 10:01:13 AM »
never deliberately lock your brakes. once you've done that, you've lost the ability to control the car. you'll go farther before you stop.
[...]

I was just saying that because one website dedicated to performance driving (read that 1 year ago, don't sue me if I'm wrong) was stipulating that the only time that locking up your wheels was more effective was on a wet surface or thick gravel (the tire tread was not mentioned). It got me confused but like you just said, just the fact that your car may not keep the same orientation (loss of control) as the direction is it heading with completely locked wheels, overcomes the safety of the very slight braking distance performance increase.

From what I understand, depending on tire tread, surface weather, and brake bias front/read are all variables affecting this graph maximum brake threshold.

Note that tire slip is not proportional to the brake pressure applied on the wheel. One the static friction gives up, wheels will lock very easily.

Like for Imowface, there is snow 4-5months a year here and that gives a lot of practice occasions to "feel the car" and even tell which wheel is locking first. Its nice for some E-Brake drifting as well, even with a crappy FWD Saturn... but that's another story.  :cool:
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Offline ZetaNine

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2010, 11:29:32 AM »
Limb0o  glad you're ok pal..& your friends as well.

Offline CAP1

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2010, 12:15:43 PM »
I was just saying that because one website dedicated to performance driving (read that 1 year ago, don't sue me if I'm wrong) was stipulating that the only time that locking up your wheels was more effective was on a wet surface or thick gravel (the tire tread was not mentioned). It got me confused but like you just said, just the fact that your car may not keep the same orientation (loss of control) as the direction is it heading with completely locked wheels, overcomes the safety of the very slight braking distance performance increase.

From what I understand, depending on tire tread, surface weather, and brake bias front/read are all variables affecting this graph maximum brake threshold.
(Image removed from quote.)
Note that tire slip is not proportional to the brake pressure applied on the wheel. One the static friction gives up, wheels will lock very easily.

Like for Imowface, there is snow 4-5months a year here and that gives a lot of practice occasions to "feel the car" and even tell which wheel is locking first. Its nice for some E-Brake drifting as well, even with a crappy FWD Saturn... but that's another story.  :cool:

 well, don't forget, when you apply your brakes, you're using the friction from the brake pads/shoes to convert your kinetic energy into heat energy, and then the rotors shed that heat. for this to happen, you need the tires to continue turning until you're stopped.
 once your tires are locked and not spinning anymore, now you're not converting that energy as efficiently.

 one of the problems i used to see a lot when i towed, was that people in accidents, would simply slam the brake pedal. once the tires locked, so did they....they didn't know what to do next, which is somewhat frightening when it gets right down to it.


 many many moons ago, when i still had my maverick, i was delivering pizzas in it. sitting at a traffic light, #3 in line, but i stopped short of the guy in front of me by about 6 feet. that 6 feet saved my life. i happened to glance in my mirror when i heard a noise i couldn't account for. there was a 70's era lincoln barreling down on me, coming straight at me, wheels locked, and turned all the way left(and yes i could see them). i cranked my wheel hard right, and hammered the throttle, and drove up the curb, next to the guy in front of me. this gave lincoln dude enough time to figure out he had to let go of the brake pedal to make the car turn. thankfully he missed everyone.
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Offline stealth

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2010, 04:25:18 PM »
boy i oughta slap u stealthy , glad yer ok Limboni <S>
Mr stealthy to you greeny.
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Offline Lepape2

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2010, 05:12:39 PM »
well, don't forget, when you apply your brakes, you're using the friction from the brake pads/shoes to convert your kinetic energy into heat energy, and then the rotors shed that heat. for this to happen, you need the tires to continue turning until you're stopped.
 once your tires are locked and not spinning anymore, now you're not converting that energy as efficiently.

 one of the problems i used to see a lot when i towed, was that people in accidents, would simply slam the brake pedal. once the tires locked, so did they....they didn't know what to do next, which is somewhat frightening when it gets right down to it.


 many many moons ago, when i still had my maverick, i was delivering pizzas in it. sitting at a traffic light, #3 in line, but i stopped short of the guy in front of me by about 6 feet. that 6 feet saved my life. i happened to glance in my mirror when i heard a noise i couldn't account for. there was a 70's era lincoln barreling down on me, coming straight at me, wheels locked, and turned all the way left(and yes i could see them). i cranked my wheel hard right, and hammered the throttle, and drove up the curb, next to the guy in front of me. this gave lincoln dude enough time to figure out he had to let go of the brake pedal to make the car turn. thankfully he missed everyone.

Oh my... I think that's a good enough argument to force me to keep a good distance behind the other cars at a stop light from now on. Figured no one was moving and distance didn't matter so...
As for braking in a straight line, when taking a highway exit, all I see are perfectly straight heavy brake marks on the pavement.
It feels good talking about this like I know how to drive but until I experience a true emergency, I can't tell whether or not that will be true. Maybe that's why my father and sister won't listen to me when I want to tell them the technical aspects of braking, emergency, engine performance, transmission, etc... No one also wants to be corrected on their driving anyway.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2010, 05:18:55 PM »
Oh my... I think that's a good enough argument to force me to keep a good distance behind the other cars at a stop light from now on. Figured no one was moving and distance didn't matter so...
As for braking in a straight line, when taking a highway exit, all I see are perfectly straight heavy brake marks on the pavement.
It feels good talking about this like I know how to drive but until I experience a true emergency, I can't tell whether or not that will be true. Maybe that's why my father and sister won't listen to me when I want to tell them the technical aspects of braking, emergency, engine performance, transmission, etc... No one also wants to be corrected on their driving anyway.

your last statement is true of about 99.9999999% of us.........

 with regards to talking to your dad........try asking him his advice...like give him a scenario, and ask what he'd do in it, and what he'd say you should do in it.

 also, like rtholmes mentioned......see if there's any performance driving schools near you. you may never see a race track besides those lessons, but it'll teach you how to REALLY handle your car....and in a safe learning environment too.  :aok

 i did most of my learning by screwing around when traffic was light late at nights......something i would NOT recommend these days, with our ticket happy men in blue, and with our sue-happy society.
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Offline Anodizer

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2010, 06:07:32 PM »
Despite whatever any of these cats have said, I'm glad you're alright and made the best split second decision with the choices offered..  Kudos to you..
And I hope your friends are alright as well..  The guy you had to swerve to avoid will get his one day..  And to be honest, as Ink has said, seat belts don't really matter when it comes down to it..
When it's your time, it's your time..  I know one guy in particular who rear ended a semi-tractor trailer and the only reason he survived was because he hopped in the backseat before he hit..
The highway he was on was ice covered at the time..  The truck was able to stop, my friend was not..  If he'd had his seat belt fastened, he would've been decapitated..
 
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Offline trax1

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2010, 06:19:46 PM »
Yeah when I had my 83 Ford Fairmont I would have to put a couple 50lb bags of sand in my trunk for the winters because it was a rear wheel drive, the added weight really helps with control.
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Offline trax1

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2010, 06:29:04 PM »

When it's your time, it's your time..  I know one guy in particular who rear ended a semi-tractor trailer and the only reason he survived was because he hopped in the backseat before he hit..
The highway he was on was ice covered at the time..  The truck was able to stop, my friend was not..  If he'd had his seat belt fastened, he would've been decapitated..
 

Just remember situations like this are exception not the rule, your much better off having it on then off, and I'm sure that you weren't advocating the non use of seat-belts, but there are some people out there that hear stories like this and then get it in there heads that it's better to have it off then on.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 07:26:32 PM by trax1 »
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Offline CAP1

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2010, 06:32:07 PM »
Just remember situations like this exception not the rule, you much better off having it on then off, and I'm sure that you weren't advocating the non use of seat-belts, but there are some people out there that hear stories like this and then get it in there heads that it's better to have it off then on.

all i know, is that when something hits my car, or my car hits something, i do not wish to continue traveling at whatever speed as the car comes to a halt
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Offline cattb

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2010, 08:31:33 PM »
A good place to practice defensive driving and winter driving is driving on a frozen lake. ;)

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2010, 08:56:02 PM »
oohh that looks like soooooooo much fun!!!!!

if we actually had any here in nj, i'd find an excuse to be out there on it/
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Offline Widewing

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2010, 10:37:28 PM »
A good place to practice defensive driving and winter driving is driving on a frozen lake. ;)



That's nice.... Here's the men's course. ;)




That's a 37" BFG KM2....
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 10:40:00 PM by Widewing »
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Offline CAP1

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2010, 11:02:16 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)


That's nice.... Here's the men's course. ;)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)
That's a 37" BFG KM2....

i drove a ford f-450 superduty wheel lift tow truck through snow deeper than that dude. back in 96 here in south jersey.
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Offline cattb

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Re: lucky to be alive
« Reply #74 on: August 16, 2010, 11:31:38 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)


That's nice.... Here's the men's course. ;)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)
That's a 37" BFG KM2....
my old izuzu diesel would go thru 15 inches snow locked in, in fact it would go thru alot more, just not enough ground clearence to stop and restart :) thats why you have those big tires, hows your gas mileage?
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