Is a new joystick a noticable improvement

[mattg6o]

As the topic says. I've upgraded to wide monitor. Huge improvement in SA so worth the money. I'm using a cheapy logitech stick. Is there a noticeable difference in upgrading to a high dollar stick? I know many of you started off like me with a low budget flight stick so I hope you have some comments. Thanks

[Ghosth]

Yes, hardware is the one advantage money can buy in AH.

Fast computer, big monitor, good joystick are all worthy investments.

For the best, most say CH, although I think many use a CH stick with an X52 throttle.

[mattg6o]

CH stick is not a twisty stick right? So I need to budget enough for the foot pedals as well. Anniversary is upcoming.

[ebfd11]

I have had both so I can give opinions on both.

Satek X52;

Pros very comfortable with little hands due to ability to adjust grip. All the buttons are easily acessible and lit up to see when flying at night.
Easy to program with the saitek control panel and eaasy to modify.

Cons;
After about 1.5 to 2 yaers it goes haywire and there is no way to fix it.

CH fighterstick

Pros;

Built real sturdy and feels good.
If something goes wrong with it aka a pot goes out you can easily fix it.

Cons;

You have no way of adjusting the grip for smaller hands unless you do a modification.

No suction cups to help hold the base down so a mod is required there.

All in all I like the fighterstick a little better than the X52, but that's my .02 worth.

Oh 1 thing I forgot the X52 comes complete in a set, throttle and stick where as the CH you have to buy them seperatly. So I am using my 52 throttle with my ch stick.

[mattg6o]

Anyone with any experience with TM hotas cougar?

[Kazaa]

Here is my collection of sticks. From left to right: CH Combat Stick, Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2, X-52.



I'm currently using CH Pedals, CH Pro Throttle and MSFFB2 as my setup.

As the MSFFB2 is no longer in production I would highly recommend the full CH setup. The X-52 is a good entry level HoTAS but doesn't come close to CH.

CH Combat Stick:

Pros

•   Oozes quality and feels fantastic to hold.
•   A lot of buttons.
•   Buttons are perfect! It takes almost no pressure to click them.
•   Hardware calibration rotary wheels.
•   Perfect input throughout the whole range of motion.
•   Parts can be easily replaced.
•   Worth the price tag.


Cons

•   Not suitable for people with smaller than average hands, that is unless you don't want to use the 8-way hat or can mod a new hand rest which moves your hand much higher up on the head of the stick.
•   Very light, the stick may move around a lot on your desk during rapid motion. Nothing that a little Bluetack can't solve.
•   No force feedback, so no adjustable friction.
•   The 8 way hat isn't in the best position for maximum comfort.

[Ghosth]

Matt if your feet are relatively coordinated I'd recomend pedals from the start. Saitek and CH both make them.
Personally I liked the looks of the Saitek as they are a bit wider stance.

As to the TM hotas, go read reviews for it compared to a CH stick and make up your own mind.
I think that TM stick is going to take the most arm-strength of any of them.
Kind of like power steering by arm-strong.

CH is in the middle, with Saitek and MS Sidewinders being the lightest touch for us wimpy geeks.

[Tigger29]

Another option out there is the Logitech G940 setup.  Comes with Stick, Throttle, and Pedals and retails for about $300 (although I found mine on sale at amazon.com for $199).

There are a lot of bad reviews for this setup.. most of which they've fixed through software... and the rest that everyone is hoping they fix with their new software release.. but overall I have to say I like the stick.  It's still worlds better and more precise than my X52 was, and the Force Feedback is top-notch.

My only real issue with the stick is what we all call the 'reversal bug'.  If you move any axis one way and then stop, and slightly move it in the opposite direction.. it doesn't register at first, and then "jumps" a couple percent on you.  Yes it's annoying but it's a bug with EVERY G940 out there, so there are high hopes they fix it with their next software release (hopefully soon!).

The Saitek X52 was nice.. I used mine for well over 3 years and it's still going strong.  Not one single problem with it (despite other people reporting nothing but problems), but it did lack an amount of precision, and I never could adjust out what we call in the game "nose bounce".. basically a condition where you are constantly over-adjusting your nose angle due to fighting the artificial centering force of the spring.  The X52 is a nice stick and very comfortable and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it as a 'beginner's HOTAS', and I used to argue against the high prices of CH gear, but after experiencing the Logitech G940 (which has greatly improved my gunning skills) I'm starting to see how the X52 lacks an amount of precision.

The 3 main sticks from what I've gathered on the boards:

X52 PROS:

• Comfort
• Very Programmable (Lots of buttons)
• Looks like something out of the Starfleet Enterprise

CONS:

• Not very precise
• Longevity Issues (Reportedly)
• Power hungry - Powered USB hub recommended

CH PROS:

• Long Life
• Easier to repair, mod
• Very Precise

CONS:

• Less Comfortable (Especially with smaller hands)
• Less Programmable
• Hardware "trim" wheels often have to be taped down in place
• Pedals Required (no twisty - although I think twisty rudder is not very precise anyway)

LOGITECH G940 PROS:

• New stick so longevity hasn't yet been established
• New generation of Force Feedback is pretty darn good
• Comes complete (with pedals and split throttle)

CONS:

• Software is still a bit buggy (Programmable as well, but kind of a PITA to setup due to software glitches)
• Some people have reported pedal spiking issues but this has not been a problem at all for me
• Like CH, uncomfortable with small hands
• REVERSAL BUG... which is my biggest problem with the stick.. because of how it works it is NOT a hardware problem.. but rather some kind of logic issue with how the stick's firmware reports the position of the axises (or axii.. or axes... what IS the plural for "axis"?!?)  Logitech is in the middle of a ground-up rebuild of the software so I'm hoping it gets resolved then, but it could still be several months away...

And there are, of course other options:

• Saitek X65 - Expensive HOTAS that doesn't move, but rather reads how much pressure you are exerting on the stick
• Thrustmaster Warthog - About to be released onto the market, but very expensive
• Thrustmaster T-flight Hotas.. cheap stick/throttle that works, but I wouldn't count on it lasting 6 months to a year.. but the price is right!
  
  What I'm seeing a lot of people do is buying the X52 setup (I say avoid the Pro version as really the only difference between the X52 and the X52 pro is that the X52 has more plastic, a looser spring, and a less programmable MFD.. not enough of a difference for me personally to want to pay the extra money on the Pro version.. but this is your call obviously).. anyway they buy the X52 setup and when they demand more precision (or when the stick conks out on them) they replace the X52 stick with a CH stick along with some pedals, but they retain their X52 throttle.  That what I was considering doing before I got the G940.  From what I understand, the CH stick is better than the Saitek Stick, but the Saitek pedals are much better than the CH pedals (although I hated my Saitek pedals but they have been redesigned since I got mine).

[CRYPTIC]

CONS:
    * Less Programmable
 You must have not tried the CH Control Manager you can do anything you can think of with this program from MACROS to SCRIPTS. Push one button shoot 1,2,3,4 rockets and then change to bombs and drop 1,2 all of them. You can have one button {in list setting} do 32 things by hitting the button 32 times. Hold a button and have it repeat the key stroke and hold and release { I use this for damage hold it shows damage release it goes away}. What ever you can think of you can make the stick do it. You just need to learn how to use the CHCM.
 You can even make your mouse go to a defined spot on the screen. If you leave your map in the same place you can have it move to the hanger tab or any place you like. This is not that handy in this game but others it is very useful.
 It is better to use the CHCM for there are drivers that get installed.

[MonkGF]

Another option out there is the Logitech G940 setup.  Comes with Stick, Throttle, and Pedals and retails for about $300 (although I found mine on sale at amazon.com for $199).

I am very intrigued by this stick, as I really want force feedback for these prop sims. I wish CH would get back into the force-feedback market as I love their quality, but I may have to do this upgrade at some point.

[mattg6o]

thanks for the info. it appears its a sound investment. now more research into which one exactly. thanks

[Tigger29]

CONS:
    * Less Programmable
 You must have not tried the CH Control Manager you can do anything you can think of with this program from MACROS to SCRIPTS. Push one button shoot 1,2,3,4 rockets and then change to bombs and drop 1,2 all of them. You can have one button {in list setting} do 32 things by hitting the button 32 times. Hold a button and have it repeat the key stroke and hold and release { I use this for damage hold it shows damage release it goes away}. What ever you can think of you can make the stick do it. You just need to learn how to use the CHCM.
 You can even make your mouse go to a defined spot on the screen. If you leave your map in the same place you can have it move to the hanger tab or any place you like. This is not that handy in this game but others it is very useful.
 It is better to use the CHCM for there are drivers that get installed.

Then I stand corrected.  All of my 'claims' on CH products like I said, isn't based on experience but rather what I've heard.  The people who claim the lack of programming I've heard from likely didn't know how to fully use that software.  Considering it can all of that, then wow!

[CRYPTIC]

Some people just don't want to put the time in or ask for help,which is sad because they never get the full use of their equipment.I had basic knowledge of how to program the stick and asked for help at the CH HANGER. There are many people over there that are of great help. You can check it out and see all the script's that people have made and posted for others to use. That forum is top notch and you get help right away.

[mechanic]

thanks for the info. it appears its a sound investment. now more research into which one exactly. thanks

The miscrosoft sidewinder can still be found online if you search ebay and those types of places. For around $25 you will get a twisty stick that gives you a high quality control for a very cheap price. They last forever also. If you change your mind about plashing big bucks, dont hesitate to try this avenue.

 

[Max]

Matt if your feet are relatively coordinated I'd recomend pedals from the start. Saitek and CH both make them.
Personally I liked the looks of the Saitek as they are a bit wider stance.