Author Topic: Iranian Unmanned Bomber  (Read 2526 times)

Offline Tac

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2010, 08:02:05 AM »
Secondly, Iran is not a dictatorship, It is a theocratic Republic.


Funny thing about that is that to be a republic means that the people, not a single ruler/monarch/dictator/emperor is in charge of the goverment.

theocracy, to quote wiki, is "a form of government in which a state is governed by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided" .

so... it cant be both. Officials that are divinely guided means an exclusive club of people with the backing of the state religious group get to choose who leads the nation and what happens, when and where. Its as if the US was led by a congress composed exclusively of Quakers with Obama as a sock puppet.

That is not a rule of the people, its a cartel running a country... and that is no different than a military running the country (which we commonly call a dictatorship).

Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship as well for all purposes. Just like the 'theocratic republic' of iran, its the saudi royal family 'cartel' that chooses who the next king is and what gets done where and when.


Offline dedalos

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2010, 10:46:21 AM »

Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship as well for all purposes. Just like the 'theocratic republic' of iran, its the saudi royal family 'cartel' that chooses who the next king is and what gets done where and when.


Sooooo, are we going to liberate them any time soon?  Get the B52s ready  :rofl

I don;t disagree with you at all on your statements.  I just would like to add that democracies are for the most part are just a theory (at list current day democracies).  Yeah, we get to vote for some guy we for the most part don't know very well until he gets on TV before elections, but once we vote them in, do we really have any say on what happens or what they do?  I don;t remember having a say on if my taxes would go up or down, don't remember having a choice on going to war, who our country should be selling weapons too, health care reform, new laws etc.  Sure, my representatives are there voting for me but come to think of it, I don;t remember them asking what my opinion was.  So, to me, a democracy is very similar to a dictatorship with the exception that every 4 years we get to pick one of two people to be the next one.  It keeps people quiet because as far as they know, they have a choice and somehow are in control, but really . . . ?
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Reaper90

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #77 on: August 27, 2010, 11:32:14 AM »
Sooooo, are we going to liberate them any time soon?  Get the B52s ready  :rofl

I don;t disagree with you at all on your statements.  I just would like to add that democracies are for the most part are just a theory (at list current day democracies).  Yeah, we get to vote for some guy we for the most part don't know very well until he gets on TV before elections, but once we vote them in, do we really have any say on what happens or what they do?  I don;t remember having a say on if my taxes would go up or down, don't remember having a choice on going to war, who our country should be selling weapons too, health care reform, new laws etc.  Sure, my representatives are there voting for me but come to think of it, I don;t remember them asking what my opinion was.  So, to me, a democracy is very similar to a dictatorship with the exception that every 4 years we get to pick one of two people to be the next one.  It keeps people quiet because as far as they know, they have a choice and somehow are in control, but really . . . ?

Thankfully, we don't have pure democracy, not on this side of the pond and surely even less so on yours. I think Churchill said something to the effect of "five minutes speaking with the average person is the best argument against democracy" (paraphrased poorly, I'm sure). Look at the percentage of the US population that voted in the last presidential election vs the percentage that voted in that last season of American Idol and you'll see why. The average person is a knuckle dragging moron whose motivations likely don't extend very far at all beyond "what's in it for me, right now" when it comes to politics. The percentage that really do care about what goes on in DC are a minority, and are evenly devided for the most part, although they mostly populate the fringe ideological edges of their party affiliations. The smallest, rarest group is the elusive "independant" that is concerned but doesn't toe a party line. This small group likely will determine the election. A portion of this small group that gives a rats arse do so because they are either a large part of the 25% - 30% of the population that pays over 70% of the taxes (they have a real vested interest) or they are of the other group that has figured out that the best way to a free hand-out is through DC (why beg locally when you can go straight to the source?). The rest of the population of this great land, at least when it comes to politics, are ignorant at best, morons at worst. There is a reason we don't vote on every single issue, but instead leave it up to people we feel (at least based on what lines of BS they spewed to get elected) capable of making decisions on our behalf. We are technically a representative republic.... so that we as a population are protected from ourselves. You wanna get yourself elected to the Presidency? Ignite the morons. Give them emotional reasons. Stir up their feelings towards religion, race, "choice," "fairness," or whatever you have to do. Don't give them hope for anything you are going to do, just make the mad enough about what you think the last guy did wrong. You don't have to actually tell them anything truthful or factual about anything you either believe in, have supported in the past, or intend to pursue as part of an agenda. Just make them mad at the other party for what their guy did. It's worked in EVERY SINGLE ELECTION since the beginning of the history of this land. The average person will gobble it up without question, logical basis, or hostorical factual support. Convince the masses you're gonna give them bread, you have their votes. Stalin referred to these people as "useful idiots" and my man we have our share as well.

And as far as Saudi Arabia goes, no, we don't need to break out the B52's or send in the Rangers. Unless they a)murder a few hundred thousand (or more) of their own people, b) harbour, train and support the people who agressively and actively carry out terrorist attacks on our home soils, c) invade a neighboring country in an effort to monopolize and control a commodity to the point that they have the power to destabilize the entire world financial market, or d) attempt to build nuclear weapons with the express, stated intent of "wiping another country off the map" with them because of some ignorant bigotted hatred for their religion or their rightful claim to their homeland.

If they did that, well, yeh. I say make a parking lot out of 'em.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 11:36:32 AM by Reaper90 »
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #78 on: August 27, 2010, 12:37:32 PM »
I like both the last two posts and read them through carefully.

When it comes to Iran, the problem at the end of the day is we see them as 'them' not 'us'. And they see us as 'them' not 'us'

That in itself is a recipe for war. Untill the whole world of humans refers to itself as 'us' mutualy, them and us will have to keep on killing each other.

 :cheers:
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline dedalos

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #79 on: August 27, 2010, 12:57:06 PM »
Thankfully, we don't have pure democracy, not on this side of the pond and surely even less so on yours. I think Churchill said something to the effect of "five minutes speaking with the average person is the best argument against democracy" (paraphrased poorly, I'm sure). Look at the percentage of the US population that voted in the last presidential election vs the percentage that voted in that last season of American Idol and you'll see why. The average person is a knuckle dragging moron whose motivations likely don't extend very far at all beyond "what's in it for me, right now" when it comes to politics. The percentage that really do care about what goes on in DC are a minority, and are evenly devided for the most part, although they mostly populate the fringe ideological edges of their party affiliations. The smallest, rarest group is the elusive "independant" that is concerned but doesn't toe a party line. This small group likely will determine the election. A portion of this small group that gives a rats arse do so because they are either a large part of the 25% - 30% of the population that pays over 70% of the taxes (they have a real vested interest) or they are of the other group that has figured out that the best way to a free hand-out is through DC (why beg locally when you can go straight to the source?). The rest of the population of this great land, at least when it comes to politics, are ignorant at best, morons at worst. There is a reason we don't vote on every single issue, but instead leave it up to people we feel (at least based on what lines of BS they spewed to get elected) capable of making decisions on our behalf. We are technically a representative republic.... so that we as a population are protected from ourselves. You wanna get yourself elected to the Presidency? Ignite the morons. Give them emotional reasons. Stir up their feelings towards religion, race, "choice," "fairness," or whatever you have to do. Don't give them hope for anything you are going to do, just make the mad enough about what you think the last guy did wrong. You don't have to actually tell them anything truthful or factual about anything you either believe in, have supported in the past, or intend to pursue as part of an agenda. Just make them mad at the other party for what their guy did. It's worked in EVERY SINGLE ELECTION since the beginning of the history of this land. The average person will gobble it up without question, logical basis, or hostorical factual support. Convince the masses you're gonna give them bread, you have their votes. Stalin referred to these people as "useful idiots" and my man we have our share as well.

Agreed 100%

Quote
And as far as Saudi Arabia goes, no, we don't need to break out the B52's or send in the Rangers. Unless they a)murder a few hundred thousand (or more) of their own people, b) harbour, train and support the people who agressively and actively carry out terrorist attacks on our home soils, c) invade a neighboring country in an effort to monopolize and control a commodity to the point that they have the power to destabilize the entire world financial market, or d) attempt to build nuclear weapons with the express, stated intent of "wiping another country off the map" with them because of some ignorant bigotted hatred for their religion or their rightful claim to their homeland.


With the exception of the nukes, I think they may have and still are doing the above  :lol

Quote

If they did that, well, yeh. I say make a parking lot out of 'em.


Yep, and the people really responsible would probably escape to a safe place while the people that given a choice would just go about their business and do non of the above would pay the price.  That is the paradox in all this.  Every one calls for the death of the people that are being forced (if what we claim their government to be is true) to behave a certain way but not the leaders.  Why not just take out the leaders that we helped in one way or another put in place?



Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline mechanic

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #80 on: August 27, 2010, 01:07:20 PM »
Someone will still have to lead them, finding a human without the weakness that power will exploit is like finding a p40b in the MA.

I'm not saying nuke anything. But taking out/replacing a leader never worked before. The only way it can work is to be led by the domimant force, and that is the USA and her accsociates... currently. If we ever make it out of this war in a peacfull treaty I doubt anything will have changed in the long run. The only way to change teh world is to kill or restrict everyone that is against you.
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline dedalos

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #81 on: August 27, 2010, 01:24:10 PM »
Someone will still have to lead them, finding a human without the weakness that power will exploit is like finding a p40b in the MA.

I'm not saying nuke anything. But taking out/replacing a leader never worked before. The only way it can work is to be led by the domimant force, and that is the USA and her accsociates... currently. If we ever make it out of this war in a peacfull treaty I doubt anything will have changed in the long run. The only way to change teh world is to kill or restrict everyone that is against you.

Isn't that Iran's idea too?  Actually, the only way to bring people together is to eliminate religions first.  As long as my god is real and yours is false, and your ancestors killed his son, we will never be in peace.  There will always be a reason to fight and it will be brought up every time our leaders decide we need to kill each other so their corporations can make a dollar or two.  See, Reaper90 was right about what he said about the average people.  However, those attributes apply to our leaders also.  They are in it for them selves too.
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline mechanic

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #82 on: August 27, 2010, 01:53:05 PM »
Exactly I agree, we are all talking from the same angle here.

The question still remains of how to reach that state where we all live in peace. Beliefs contribute to violence but even without belief we would fight for some reason untill we all felt we came from the same place. So two options realistic for us now to gain 'world peace'.

1) kill everyone who would oppose the growing united nations of the human empire

2) restrict them to the point that they would be better off dead
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline dedalos

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #83 on: August 27, 2010, 02:43:04 PM »
Exactly I agree, we are all talking from the same angle here.

The question still remains of how to reach that state where we all live in peace. Beliefs contribute to violence but even without belief we would fight for some reason untill we all felt we came from the same place. So two options realistic for us now to gain 'world peace'.

1) kill everyone who would oppose the growing united nations of the human empire

2) restrict them to the point that they would be better off dead

ok, now that is funny.  The growing united nations of human empire?  Aren't those the ones that have committed the biggest crimes against humanity also?  Should I start naming countries, their colonies, and the number of people the killed or made leave in poverty?  If that is the empire you are talking about god helps us.  Well, my god, cause yours is false  ;)

Easy solution, how about we leave each other alone?  See how that works out for a bit? But we can't, right?  Because no matter how long we drag this discussion out and how many great ideas we have, after this thread is locked we will go back to using what and enjoying the things we are able to have and afford because of the crimes our governments have or are still committing.
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline MADe

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #84 on: August 27, 2010, 05:41:43 PM »
Reaper,
Nice post, right on the money.
I believe in capitolism, but unfortunately rampant, unregulated capitolism is like cancer. Lives with the host for years but eventually it takes to much , killing itself and the host.
I would say that my countries latest bank fiasco, proves my words.
Globalization is rampant, unchecked capitolism.
Thank you president Clinton for driving the final nails, thank you US supreme court for saying that the constitution of the United States gives foreign nationals and foreign corporations the right to buy congress.
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Offline Changeup

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #85 on: August 27, 2010, 06:27:06 PM »

Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship as well for all purposes. Just like the 'theocratic republic' of iran, its the saudi royal family 'cartel' that chooses who the next king is and what gets done where and when.


Actually Saudi is a Kingdom based on theocratic rule.  Saudis generally practice Wahhabism.  It is a shiite form of Islam and is the "youngest" of the Islamic sects...and one of the most inflexible.  Most Islamic clerics quietly believe it was "created" for the royals 900 years ago...give or take 200 years, so they didn't violate any Islamic pretexts or rules...very convenient given that Islam forbids "kingdoms" indirectly because the "king" is Allah.  

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PS -No one on this board is privy to classified information between countries intel agencies...nor are they privy to conversations regarding threats to neighboring countries abroad.  It is entertaining to see how many believe what they read on the internet and newspapers..no one really knows what any of them know..I guess Britany Spears IS pregnant with a martian baby...
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline mechanic

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #86 on: August 27, 2010, 06:36:01 PM »
ok, now that is funny.  The growing united nations of human empire?  Aren't those the ones that have committed the biggest crimes against humanity also?  Should I start naming countries, their colonies, and the number of people the killed or made leave in poverty?  If that is the empire you are talking about god helps us.  Well, my god, cause yours is false  ;)

Easy solution, how about we leave each other alone?  See how that works out for a bit? But we can't, right?  Because no matter how long we drag this discussion out and how many great ideas we have, after this thread is locked we will go back to using what and enjoying the things we are able to have and afford because of the crimes our governments have or are still committing.



You are being very hostile to someone who agrees the same way as you Ded, calm down  :)
What ever god you think i worship you are wrong, I dont. And I don't like my governments and I don't like human history of treating each other. I am the first to look at what we have done wrong.
You are taking my post as my wishes?
It is not, it is an observation of the way things are going.
I'll leave you alone if you want, but I am not sure why you think I'm attacking you, I'm agreeing with your philosophy.   :headscratch:

S!






And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline Changeup

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #87 on: August 27, 2010, 07:21:14 PM »
Reaper,
Nice post, right on the money.
I believe in capitolism, but unfortunately rampant, unregulated capitolism is like cancer. Lives with the host for years but eventually it takes to much , killing itself and the host.
I would say that my countries latest bank fiasco, proves my words.
Globalization is rampant, unchecked capitolism.
Thank you president Clinton for driving the final nails, thank you US supreme court for saying that the constitution of the United States gives foreign nationals and foreign corporations the right to buy congress.

Reaper, Im not picking on your quote, rather using it to illustrate a point:  It seems that all countries have their failures, modesties, inconsistencies and poor examples of government.  As I read these posts, its interesting that what gets mentioned are the exceptions, not the rules.  As an example, there is nothing wrong with capitalism.  It works great...until it's exploited by a few that seek ways to make it work unbalanced in their favor...but that is nothing new...that is humanity and its failure.  Its no different that Islam...very few Muslims are extremeists right?  But the few that are seem to be getting all the attention for the damage they create.  No, I am not Muslim....lol...again, an analogy.


Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater....

V/r

Changeup
"Such is the nature of war.  By protecting others, you save yourself."

"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered.  Those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.  Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Morihei Ueshiba

Offline bustr

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #88 on: August 27, 2010, 07:49:31 PM »
Siemens Deutsch built the ovens. They were a major builder, supporter and contributer to Hitler and the rise of Democratic Socialism. They also helped in the post war rebuilding of Germany. Siemens Schweiz was the Swiss affiliate which had been in Switzerland for nearly 100 years up till then and cut ties with Germany per Switzerlands neutrality.

IBM sold and maintained business machines in europe and to Germany before the war. Trained the personel to use the machines which where relocated to the camps the Siemens ovens were used at. This was to help keep orderly records and processing time tables. IBM had on going support contracts through the war and made money off them and lied to the war department about it. They saw it as a good business strategy because the war would end eventualy and europe would need business machines in the aftermath.

Some sources say Joseph Kennedy was a Natzi sympithyser, hated Jews, and sold tires to Germany before and during the war.

There are many one sided ideologicly driven conspiracy theory web sites on the internet that focus on a single bit of scewed information to try and villify a universe of people, companies and history. Siemens and those ovens is one internet villan. IBM and WW2 Germany is another. Joe Kennedy, antisemitism and selling tires to the Natzi's is another. Everyone who had anything to do with those ovens, business machines or tires is now dead or soon to be.
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline 4deck

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Re: Iranian Unmanned Bomber
« Reply #89 on: August 28, 2010, 08:43:59 AM »


Forgot who said this while trying to take a base, but the quote goes like this. "I cant help you with ack, Im not in attack mode" This is with only 2 ack up in the town while troops were there, waiting. The rest of the town was down.