Author Topic: RC vs. real AC  (Read 880 times)

Offline Chalenge

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2010, 03:07:20 PM »
I dont think I have ever participated at an even where R/C and full scale used the same runway. Thats just crazy. I dont think the AMA is going to like it either. That said I think the kid that lost his R/C plane is a little too wrapped up in the loss and not considering the pilot of the full scale at all. The event director did not do a good job with this one.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2010, 03:08:22 PM »
Did any of you watch past the point of impact?  It's obvious it was an event featuring both real and R/C aircraft.  There is a guy in a white shirt there with a handset who seems to be running the show, either he dropped the ball totally or it was miscommunication.

I heard someone say miscommunication several times between the F bombs.  

How do you define active airport, the real aircraft came in with it's smoke on.  It was meant to be a fly-by. Whether the aircraft was early or the runway wasn't cleared properly for the stunt, who knows.  It wasn't just some plane deciding to land there.  

Initially, I thought it was a planned stunt to have them collide.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2010, 03:23:05 PM »
I heard someone say miscommunication several times between the F bombs.  

How do you define active airport, the real aircraft came in with it's smoke on.  It was meant to be a fly-by. Whether the aircraft was early or the runway wasn't cleared properly for the stunt, who knows.  It wasn't just some plane deciding to land there.  

Initially, I thought it was a planned stunt to have them collide.

active means what it sounds like. planes coming and going. notice the plane taxiing at the end there?

 ama rules also dictate that you have a spotter when you fly. someone should've seen the bipe coming.

 and challenge is correct.......there will be trouble from the ama for those that were involved flying that model.
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Offline bravoa8

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2010, 03:43:09 PM »
The question is why was he flying it over the runway?? :confused:

Offline Chalenge

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2010, 03:52:47 PM »
Thats also true... no flyby is supposed to ever occur over an active runway. Whether it was an active runway or not it would have been a good idea for any flyby to be offset (thus the rules) but on this day every thing that could go wrong did go wrong. Fortunately the full scale pilot made it down safely but I still want to box that kids ears.  :devil
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Offline CAP1

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2010, 03:55:33 PM »
Thats also true... no flyby is supposed to ever occur over an active runway. Whether it was an active runway or not it would have been a good idea for any flyby to be offset (thus the rules) but on this day every thing that could go wrong did go wrong. Fortunately the full scale pilot made it down safely but I still want to box that kids ears.  :devil

i see them all the time around here. they're self anounced.

flying w traffic, t6 performing low approach, flying w.


the r/c dude should not have been out there.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2010, 04:04:50 PM »
i see them all the time around here. they're self anounced.

flying w traffic, t6 performing low approach, flying w.


the r/c dude should not have been out there.

Its different during an airshow or at least every one I have ever taken an R/C plane to. The full scale jobs usually fly at a different schedule (not at the same time) and are told to maintain at least one wingspans distance from the outside edge of the runway for maximum spectator safety. I went looking to see if the FAA made that a rule but so far nothing.
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Offline dev1ant

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2010, 06:51:17 PM »
over the runway like that, a low pass isn't that bad. i'd kinda like to know what made the r/c dude think it was a smart idea to hover a $5k model on the runway though.

That is a very common type of RC flying called 3D.  Most people start with electric foamys, then work their way up to 1/4 scale at a medium alt, then finally right on the deck.  Check youtube, what that guy is doing isn't even that impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzprGLlJtPc
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 06:52:48 PM by dev1ant »
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Offline CAP1

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2010, 06:55:48 PM »
That is a very common type of RC flying called 3D.  Most people start with electric foamys, then work their way up to 1/4 scale at a medium alt, then finally right on the deck.  Check youtube, what that guy is doing isn't even that impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzprGLlJtPc

i've seen that type of flying. we have a couple of people in our club that do that........but again...on an active runway is just plain stupid.
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Offline dev1ant

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2010, 06:58:32 PM »
i've seen that type of flying. we have a couple of people in our club that do that........but again...on an active runway is just plain stupid.

My bad, I get what your saying now..Yeah pretty stupid.   :aok
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Offline CAP1

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2010, 06:59:43 PM »
My bad, I get what your saying now..Yeah pretty stupid.   :aok

 :aok

no prob sir/
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Offline Meatwad

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2010, 07:02:46 PM »
To me looks like the RC pilot was in the wrong for playing on an active airstrip
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Offline eagl

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2010, 07:56:34 PM »
Nonsense.

There was obviously a fly-in that airport, judging from the number of both full size and RC aircraft, along with spectators.  There would have been a NOTAM published, and the organizers would very likely have posted notices at various local aircraft and in local magazines, advertising the event (and warning away non-participants).  The bipe came in with his smoke on, indicating he was either part of the event, or a smarta** trying to buzz the event without proper coordination.  There was one person wearing what appeared to be an "official" embroidered logo shirt holding a handheld VHF radio, and later on that same person was seen attempting to coordinate efforts to retrieve the RC wreckage and keep spectators off of the runway.  That sounds like there was an official "air boss" who should have been attempting to deconflict traffic in and out of the airport, including coordinating the arrival of non-participants stupid enough to poke their noses into an event like that, or pilots who were too stupid/ignorant to check their destination NOTAMS.

In any case, although the full-scale aircraft may have had the "right of way" if an official FAA investigation was launched, the pilot might also have been found in violation of various regulations including the requirement to check destination airport conditions prior to taking off for the flight.

I have been in the position of the RC pilot myself, on 3 occasions.  In one occasion, I was performing an RC demo at the USAF academy prior to a cadet parade (a good excuse for not having to actually MARCH in the parade).  We had just shut down our operations when an Navy F-14 screamed overhead at around 200 ft, before his scheduled flyby timeslot and well below the authorized 1000' flyby altitude.  If he had come past just 5 minutes earlier, he might have run into a half-dozen RC aircraft.  The second and third times, we were using an abandoned auxiliary airfield on the USAF grounds for RC flying on a Saturday.  The field was closed, however the motorgliders occasionally practiced engine-out approaches to that field (making go-arounds at approx 50 ft altitude).  We had been told that there was no Saturday flying so the whole model engineering club was on the airstrip flying our models.  We heard some buzzing around nearby, and saw one of the motorgliders setting up for an approach.  We quickly landed and walked back away from the runway, and sure enough he made one or two passes before leaving.  In all of these cases, we were operating RC aircraft with full authorization from local authorities, and full size aircraft still came close enough that there could have been a mishap if things had gone just a bit differently.  In all of those cases, yes our RC aircraft would have violated the right of way of the real aircraft, but in all three cases there were coordination breakdowns as well that would have placed the cause of the mishap squarely in someone else's lap.

It is hard to tell exactly who was at fault in that video, but there was clearly an organized event underway and there was just as clearly someone using a handheld radio to coordinate the aerial events and provide deconfliction.  It is equally clear that the full size aircraft came through anyhow, and managed to ram a model participating in the event.  Not sure why anyone would assume that the RC fliers are at fault in such a situation, given the fact that it was obviously a fly-in with participation by both full size and RC aircraft.
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Offline Strip

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2010, 08:25:18 PM »
Eagl nailed it....

The RC plane looks to be a part of an event and under the control of a coordinator. The biplane was either early, misinformed or in an area he was not supposed to be. Someone dropped the ball for this accident to occur and my gut tells me it was not the RC pilot! With all the planes and people in the background it was probably a fly in with an airshow. If anything the RC pilot looks to be guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Is a runway with an airshow occurring above it an active runway?

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« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 08:29:31 PM by Strip »

Offline eagl

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Re: RC vs. real AC
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2010, 08:30:56 PM »
Is a runway with an airshow occurring above it an active runway?

I think it depends on what the airport manager puts in the NOTAM.  We've had to "close" non-towered airports in the past due to landing emergency aircraft on them and having to shut down on the runway, and when that happens we contact the radar control facility who controls airspace around the airport and they put out a NOTAM closing the field.  When the runway is cleared off, they remove the NOTAM.
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