Gunnery

[SPKmes]

My main problem is over and/or undershooting...this could be nose to tail or wing to wing.....I have been working on a few things lately and am starting to get a feel.....Watching my films has helped but I have been doing this for some time hence the reason I know I am either long or short..I think sitting back and asking the question and have your input has made me aware of my issues rather than me knowing them and not listening to myself.....firing when I feel instead of when I think is also helping...I am still missing lots but I can actually notice an improvement...one thing though, although I feel I have stagnated in my gunnery using this ( http://www.major.geek.nz/AKUAG/Resources_Files/PilotStats.aspx ) it shows that I have, actually, had a continuous increase in my hit percentage....Not massive increases but steady...and that is all you can ask for IMO.

Not over compensating for bullet drop has probably had the greatest results so far.

[Roadblck]

Wise words Grizz.


  1 thing you can do is strafe the ground and watch the pattern the bullets make. If your having a "nose bounce" problem and the rudder is to blame,you'll see a serpentine pattern or even something that looks like a question mark.

 If the problem is the pitch axis,this is harder to see,but the use of the .target command can be used to check.

 Then of course you can film your sorties and watch where your making your mistakes.

 Once the problem is identified,as Grizz said, then you can develope drills to help or adjust your setup as the need may be.

     

Can you give some examples of the sort of drills you might use to help improve? 

I'm struggling a lot with my gunnery as well, but I'm sure much of my problem is due to my not having played AH in many years.  I'll start trying to pay more attention to why and how I'm missing though.  This thread has been pretty helpful, though!

[Muzzy]

Check my earlier post in the thread for my ongoing attempts at gunnery improvement. The lead sight in the TA has helped me with deflection although I am far from good at it.  I'm sure Morfiend and the other trainers have some tips.  It was Morfiend who put me on to the lead sight and the target command.

[Dawger]

Drills to improve gunnery.

1. Turn off tracers. A few reasons why:
                      Tracers alert the enemy to your intention to shoot him and tell him a lot about what you are doing. It is obvious that sending tracers over the head of an enemy who doesn't know you are there will get his attention. But even the enemy that knows you are there will panic a bit when he sees tracers and may become very unpredictable. So don't panic the bandit until you are getting hits by turning the tracers off. Also Tracers hide hit sprites. Sometimes what you think are hits are actually tracers.

2. Kill drones offline. 15 minutes a day before you go online. But do this with discipline. If flying wing mounted guns set your convergence and then practice offline by not allowing yourself to pull the trigger until you are at the convergence you set. Less than 400 yards. Ideally 200 yards.

3. 90% of bad gunnery is just shooting too far away. If you start firing at 800 yards with tracers on the bandit has plenty of time to panic break and spoil your shot even if you are on target with your rounds. You just don't get kill shots with a short burst outside of 400 yards unless you are in an aircraft specifically built to do that. Discipline yourself to fire at your convergence or inside of 400 yards for nose mounts.

4. Get a TA partner who will let you shoot at him. Fly every conceivable situation with the TAB targeting ON and tracers off. Learn what good lead looks like in every situation. Do this weekly.

5. Fly in the DA with a dueling partner but with special rules. You only get one pull of the trigger. Find a dueling partner that you can beat regularly or will let you win so you get your shot opportunity. One shot one kill. If you miss you have to auger and start over. Make a bet on the outcome to give yourself motivation.

Realize you can't be a perfect shot all the time. There are many factors. Right now my gunnery sucks. It comes and goes in cycles based upon my flying activity. I fly on two separate rigs because I travel for a living. That impairs gunnery so consider that as a factor. When you change something it affects your gunnery. I keep moving my home control setup trying to find an ideal setup. That affects gunnery.

So I am back to practicing, doing the things mentioned above. I doubt I'll ever get back to the level I was 10 years ago because my reflexes are slower but that just means I have to work a little harder.

[Roadblck]

Drills to improve gunnery.

1. Turn off tracers. A few reasons why:
                      Tracers alert the enemy to your intention to shoot him and tell him a lot about what you are doing. It is obvious that sending tracers over the head of an enemy who doesn't know you are there will get his attention. But even the enemy that knows you are there will panic a bit when he sees tracers and may become very unpredictable. So don't panic the bandit until you are getting hits by turning the tracers off. Also Tracers hide hit sprites. Sometimes what you think are hits are actually tracers.

2. Kill drones offline. 15 minutes a day before you go online. But do this with discipline. If flying wing mounted guns set your convergence and then practice offline by not allowing yourself to pull the trigger until you are at the convergence you set. Less than 400 yards. Ideally 200 yards.

3. 90% of bad gunnery is just shooting too far away. If you start firing at 800 yards with tracers on the bandit has plenty of time to panic break and spoil your shot even if you are on target with your rounds. You just don't get kill shots with a short burst outside of 400 yards unless you are in an aircraft specifically built to do that. Discipline yourself to fire at your convergence or inside of 400 yards for nose mounts.

4. Get a TA partner who will let you shoot at him. Fly every conceivable situation with the TAB targeting ON and tracers off. Learn what good lead looks like in every situation. Do this weekly.

5. Fly in the DA with a dueling partner but with special rules. You only get one pull of the trigger. Find a dueling partner that you can beat regularly or will let you win so you get your shot opportunity. One shot one kill. If you miss you have to auger and start over. Make a bet on the outcome to give yourself motivation.

Realize you can't be a perfect shot all the time. There are many factors. Right now my gunnery sucks. It comes and goes in cycles based upon my flying activity. I fly on two separate rigs because I travel for a living. That impairs gunnery so consider that as a factor. When you change something it affects your gunnery. I keep moving my home control setup trying to find an ideal setup. That affects gunnery.

So I am back to practicing, doing the things mentioned above. I doubt I'll ever get back to the level I was 10 years ago because my reflexes are slower but that just means I have to work a little harder.

Great stuff Dawger! 

I've been trying to do a little practice shooting the drones offline, but I really like the idea of getting a training partner to help practice this.  I have been trying not to use the lead computing sight aid too much, because I was worried that I'd become too dependent on it... but maybe I should turn it back on.

[Muzzy]

I only use it in the TA just to practice how much to lead.  I'm not sure you can use it in the MA anyways.

[Roadblck]

I only use it in the TA just to practice how much to lead.  I'm not sure you can use it in the MA anyways.

You can't use it in the MA.  What I meant is:  I don't want to get dependent on it to the point where I can't hit anything without it (ie, in the MA)

[TheRapier]

I'd add in to the excellent advice here, use short bursts until you know you are on target. Particularly with the 6 50s set up. When you know you have a hitting solution at close range, stand on the trigger till its lost.

Its all about getting feedback to your brain. If you don't take any shots you can't get a feel for it. If you are hosing you go through ammo too fast.

[Dawger]

Great stuff Dawger!  

I've been trying to do a little practice shooting the drones offline, but I really like the idea of getting a training partner to help practice this.  I have been trying not to use the lead computing sight aid too much, because I was worried that I'd become too dependent on it... but maybe I should turn it back on.

It is a learning tool so use it like one. You don't even have to shoot with it on. Just pay attention to where it is in various situations. What will happen is that knowledge will transfer to the arena when the crosshair is not available.

And do the training as a cycle. Practice offline a few minutes, then TA with lead computer on, then duel a bit one shot one kill style. What you are trying to do is build skill AND change attitude.

I was working with a guy the other day. His complaint was gunnery. So I said shoot at me. His gunnery was good, he was just shooting too far away. He was firing at 800 yards in a wing mounted guns aircraft with his convergence set at 350.

Over the next hour I got him to turn tracers off and not fire until under 400 yards. In an hour or so he went from thinking his gunnery was terrible to being excited about his gunnery. I didn't teach him gunnery skill in an hour. He could already shoot. He just needed to ditch the distraction of tracers and concentrate on firing at or near his convergence setting.

And close is not really that close. 400 yards is a long way to shoot something accurately. We lose sight of that fact online. 400 seems like a small number. Its 1200 feet.

The Empire State building is 1200 feet tall. It is a long way.

Drive in close and its much easier to hit stuff. You should be close enough to be able to aim at a specific part of the airplane. Aim for propellor spinner and you will get more pilot kills. that is the best way to end the fight, kill the pilot.

In fact, I personally consider it a miss if I don't kill the pilot. The pilot should be your target, not his plane. Aim to kill him and the rest is gravy.

[edge12674]

There are some great tips here already.  Here is my two cents worth. 
When practicing offline set all your drones to Bf109's.  They present the smallest target, especially dead 6 shots.  Once you get used to hitting 109s other aircraft will seem easier to hit. 
I have found that my rudder use is crucial for fine tuning the shot.  I always knew when my pedals began spiking, because I would see it in my gunnery first.  Make sure your Yaw axis is smooth and scale it if necessary to cut down on the bounce.

Japanese cannons tend to act a little differently than any of the others in that the muzzle velocity is slower.  This is especially noticeable in the A6M series.  For that reason my A6M cannons are always set at max convergence.  This elevates the cannon, basically lobbing the shell to D600, and makes high angle tracking shots easier.

[morfiend]

 There's been alot of talk about the LCG,first it's only available in the training arena and can be enabled for offline use.
 The first piece of advice I'd give about using it as a training aid it to try to fly so it's in the gunsight but dont shoot! The idea is to form a sight picture so once you can fly and track the sight with ease,then you look at the position to the other players aircraft.

  I try to line up reference points,like as soon as the A/C crosses a frame part,or some other reference depending on the A/C type.Once the sight picture is developed and you think you know how much lead your going to need,then turn it off and shoot.

 You may find you'll have to cycle turning on and off the sight,if your missing alot,to correct your aim.If you have a willing partner it's much easier to do all this but you dont need 1 for aquirring the sight picture as it's simple to lock the LCG on anyone and they dont even have to know your doing it,if you dont shoot.

  Hope this helps,heaven knows I'm the last person to give advice on shooting.......     cant hit squat myself.


     

[mtnman]

Lots of good info here!  I agree with all of it except the turning the tracers off part. 

IMO, they're one of, if not THE best tool for quickly learning where your shots are going.  I've played both ways, and can't agree with those that recommend turning them off.  I do "ok" with them off, but find I'm stuck at a 8-9% hit rate without them.  Turn them back on, and I'm right back at 12-14%.  They're a tool.

[TonyJoey]

Lots of good info here!  I agree with all of it except the turning the tracers off part. 

IMO, they're one of, if not THE best tool for quickly learning where your shots are going.  I've played both ways, and can't agree with those that recommend turning them off.  I do "ok" with them off, but find I'm stuck at a 8-9% hit rate without them.  Turn them back on, and I'm right back at 12-14%.  They're a tool.

Same way for me, 16-17% On, and about 9-10% Off. It may alert them to your prescence, but more times than not you already have the jump on them and can get them before anything drastic happens.

[mbailey]

When practicing offline set all your drones to Bf109's.  

How is this done? I never knew that you could do this.............Learn something new everyday 

[Dawger]

Lots of good info here!  I agree with all of it except the turning the tracers off part. 

IMO, they're one of, if not THE best tool for quickly learning where your shots are going.  I've played both ways, and can't agree with those that recommend turning them off.  I do "ok" with them off, but find I'm stuck at a 8-9% hit rate without them.  Turn them back on, and I'm right back at 12-14%.  They're a tool.

I have no clue what my hit percentage is ( and I honestly don't care). The only important gunnery measurement is the number of kills. Do what makes your kills increase. If you get more kills with tracers on, then use tracers on.

One possible area of difference is wing mounted versus nose mounted guns. I fly the P38 mainly and the tracers hide the target from me because they are right in front of me. Wing mounted guns don't do that as much so tracers on might work better in wing mounts.

Also your shooting style makes a difference. I'm used to flying a hard hitting guns package and killing with a single short burst. Tracers are of little use in that situation. If you are flying something with relatively weak guns and you need a long burst on target, tracers might aid that situation.

But I still believe if tracers are useful, you are firing too far away. At 200 yards and closer tracers are unnecessary. No tracers requires the discipline to drive in very close before pulling the trigger.