Networking question...router specifically

[Reschke]

I DO NOT DO WIRELESS FOR MY GAMING...my work vpn also doesn't like wireless connections and drops wireless connections like a hooker after sex.

OK I just got my connection to the net installed this week and just got them BACK out to run the cables correctly after they installed some pluglink horsecrap networking stuff in my office and game room.

So with that said I want to know what you guys think about a router? I have a Linksys that is actually on loan to a buddy but I think I want him to keep it...its a couple of years old now.

So here is what I have...I have AT&T Uverse on the 18Mbps plan they have. The modem/wired/wireless router is upstairs (wife and kids connect wireless on laptops for facebook, school, browsing, etc...)

My office/game room is downstairs with a Cat5e cable running to it. In this room I plan on having two...maybe three computers up and running all the time. One for work, one for gaming and one for storage/old games.

Here is a router I am looking at getting but want some opinions on it. Its not super expensive and it seems to fit the bill for what I want. Also I might put either a XBOX 360 or PS3 on it wired in the next 3-6 months downstairs as well.
TRENDnet TW100-BRF114 10/100Mbps Cable/DSL 4-Port Firewall Router 1 x 10/100Mbps WAN Ports 4 x 10/100Mbps LAN Ports http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16833156027&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-RSSDailyDeals-_-na-_-na&AID=10521304&PID=3463938&SID=4fqsc1v3g4

[gpwurzel]

Why not use a switch in your games room? Plug each computer into that, have your cat5 cable plugged into it and away you should go.

just curious like,

Wurzel

[Reschke]

I honestly had not thought about a switch instead of a router. I will look into that for my setup.

[TilDeath]

I prefer D-Link over Linksys (even though its now Cisco).  I have had nothing but trouble with Linksys equipment.  TrendNet I have used without troubles.  A switch will work fine for you as long as you have the security settings that are acceptable to you on the AT&T DSL modem.

TD

[Ghastly]

Reschke, the problem with (most, if not ALL) of these inexpensive routers is that they don't publish a throughput rating on the SPI firewall and/or whatever UTM is incorporated into the router.  It does you little good to have an 18 Mbps plan, if the router itself can only push 5.5 Mbps through the firewall.  And that's not just an "example" - it's EXACTLY what I found to be the case with the Netgear FVS318 I was using before I switched to a Sonicwall.

This is what I went with, and now, I actually get 25 Mbps from my connection - before, I'd always blamed Charter when throughput wasn't where I expected it to be.  

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833339099&cm_re=sonicwall_tz_100-_-33-339-099-_-Product

And echoing Tildeath, I won't buy another Cisco product - ever.  The last Cisco product I bought was supposed to be a business class router, but it was obviously "Linksys", with a CISCO label. Which wouldn't have mattered, but it failed to even route - and that's ALL it was suposed to do.  Even in "pure" router mode, it's disabled firewall would interfere with VPN traffic after almost exactly 24 hours of up time.  And support for CISCO is virtually nonexistent to the SMB.

EDIT -> I just reread your post, and if you are planning to double NAT - (a router that performs NAT, plugged into another router that performs NAT, connected to the modem) DON'T.  NAT - while certainly a very potent tool - makes a bad enough hash of things at times - and double NAT is easily quadruple the trouble.

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[Reschke]

Thanks for the information there guys. I will do a little more checking on the switches and see what I can find since that sounds like all I need.

[Reschke]

Geez I really want to stay away from these "Green" switches but from what I have found on both pricewatch, newegg and tigerdirect I may end up having to go that route.

[Fulmar]

I've only used one Linksys router in my base, one Netgear, and still on my D-Link.  The Linkysys locked up a fair amount and died (this was 5 years ago).  The Netgear locked up a lot (wasn't mine, was in college, that was 7 years ago).  I'm still on my 5 year old D-Link DI-524.  I've only used it for about 1 year as an actual router, otherwise I turned off DHCP etc and use it as a router/wireless access point since I use an old P3 box as a firewall.  I've mixed it up over the years between SmoothWall (current), ClarkConnect, IPCopy, and Monowall.

Clarkconnect was my favorite, but in my home I really didn't utilize all its features (and I had to use a faster computer to run it well).  So in the interest in power savings, I stuck with my IBM Aptiva P3 running Smoothwall.  Uses about 40 watts compared to an Athlon machine that ran ClarkConnect @ 100-130W.

[gyrene81]

I prefer D-Link over Linksys (even though its now Cisco).  I have had nothing but trouble with Linksys equipment.  TrendNet I have used without troubles.  A switch will work fine for you as long as you have the security settings that are acceptable to you on the AT&T DSL modem.

TD

You're not serious...  

D-Link is and was a bargain low end "home user dummy" brand, although the latest generation of home networking equipment is showing capabilities and security competitive with Cisco/Linksys. TrendNet may as well be labeled Belkin or Rosewill. Netgear makes better stuff and they've been Walmart quality for years.


The OP is going to want an 8 port unmanaged "smart" switch for everything being planned in that room, looking at it from an economical standpoint of function and simplicity. On the low end any 8 port 10/100 unmanaged switch would provide basic connectivity and you may have some data rate issues once in a while, or even a lock up if using a very low end switch. A high end switch wouldn't do much more than add unnecessary cost. Strangely enough, for economical home networking switches that are reliable and offer the features wanted, it's either Netgear or TrendNet for under $150.

This replaced the 8 port D-Link gigabit switch in my home computer room:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122203




Ghastly, there is a difference in function between a pure firewall appliance and a router with an internal firewall. The Linksys WRT54GL router I've been running for 4 years now has been flawless and throughput has never been an issue even with 4 computers going at the same time. The only problem I've had since I put this router online was from the old Charter provided Motorola Surfboard modem that kept locking up, it got replaced with a brand new DOCSIS 3.0 compliant modem. Problem solved.

[Ghastly]

Ghastly, there is a difference in function between a pure firewall appliance and a router with an internal firewall. The Linksys WRT54GL router I've been running for 4 years now has been flawless and throughput has never been an issue even with 4 computers going at the same time. The only problem I've had since I put this router online was from the old Charter provided Motorola Surfboard modem that kept locking up, it got replaced with a brand new DOCSIS 3.0 compliant modem. Problem solved.

I agree - he's going to want a switch, rather than a router. No question.

As to the "Cisco" issue... Gyrene, the Cisco RVS 4000 was supposed to be a business class perimeter device, operable as a router or a gateway.  It was also supposed to be a Cisco product. It may have been one of those things, but it's definitely not a "Cisco" router (it says Linksys all over it, and I've used enough Linksys products to instantly recognize the setup screens), and it darn sure didn't operate properly as a router.  I never tried it as a gateway, because what I needed it for was a simple, standard, IP router to route between a new wireless ISP's network and our perimeter firewall systems, and the ISP we were replacing had provided their own router, while the new one did not.

And what I found was that even configured as router after almost exactly a 24 hour period of up time - even with the firewall and IPS disabled on the router - the %$$^#$ thing would begin blocking ALL IPSEC traffic that passed through it.

Funny, no other router I've ever used has done that.

And as to support - have you tried to call Cisco on a problem with one of their products any time within the last year or 2?  Unless you are from a large enough company to qualify for Cisco support, your options are limited to live with it or replace it.  

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[Ghastly]

Reschke, if you are having trouble deciding, this is the switch I'd buy, If I needed to do what you are doing and I was buying from what Newegg has in stock.

It's 8 port - but you are already going to nearly fill a 5 port switch.  It's non-blocking, so you'll never have to worry about it getting "swamped".  It's unmanaged which keeps the cost low - and a blue moon is more likely than you needing to set up VLANs or perform the other management functions that a more expensive managed switch would allow.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122141
http://www.netgear.com/products/home/wireless-range-extenders/unmanaged-switches/GS608.aspx

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[gyrene81]

Geez Ghastly, I thought you would have known better than to look at anything Cisco below their enterprise class equipment, most especially after the company has repeatedly announced an interest in withdrawal from the home and small business markets.

From what I see of the security specs, that RVS-4000 didn't suit your purpose from the beginning:

Security Access Control: IP and MAC based Access Control List (ACL)
Firewall: Stateful Packet Inspection (SPI) firewall
Content Filtering: URL blocking, keyword blocking
IPS (Intrusion Prevention System): IP Sweep Detection, Application Anomaly Detection (HTTP, FTP, Telnet, RCP), P2P Control, Instant Messenger Control, L3-L4 Protocol (IP, TCP, UDP, ICMP) Normalization, L7 Signature Matching
Signature Update: Manual download from the web (Free download for 1 year)
Secure Management: HTTPS, Username/Password
802.1x: Port-based Radius Authentication (EAP-MD5, EAP-PEAP)

Not knowing the specifics of the setup you were tossing it into or the way you were trying to set it up, some of the security features were probably getting in the way. It happens.


The actual Linksys brand equipment has always been the better of the two in the home/small business market. That is not to say Linksys hasn't sold bad designs like all other manufacturers, just fewer. Cisco's latest move though is to put it's name on everything made under their corporate roof so now you have to be especially careful when looking at what you think is a Linksys. And I've had to call Linksys tech support for a router question, no worse than dealing with HP enterprise support. I'm guessing Cisco is not a pleasant experience.



That switch you recommended may support jumbo frames (which ATT Uverse does not support) but it doesn't support QoS or SNMP, both protocols are very useful in maintaining reliable data transfer. Might also want to look at those 802.3 standards.

[Vulcan]

Linksys is crap, generally speaking so is cisco (it's a jack of all trades master of none).


Gyrene ... doesn't support QoS and SNMP? Really get a clue as to what you're talking about. Those features are irrelevant for home use. And before you reach for google remember there are plenty of people in this forum who are well qualified and know what they're talking about.

[Ghastly]

Gyrene,

If you go to Cisco's web site, click Services and Products, you'll see a section for Small Business.  The RVS 4000 is one of the routers there.  And to perform static routing between a 3 perimeter devices and a (single) ISP router to support a network of 20 employees and 35 systems - I shouldn't NEED an enterprise class router.   

Did I mention that all I needed was to route a single 10Mbps connection from my 3 border devices to one IP at the ISP?  Did you notice that it's supposed to support static routing (as well as RIP 1 and 2, which as mundane as that is, was more than I needed?)  I can assure you it can be configured that way.

Besides which - the day I need to buy a $700 + router from any vendor to get one that actually you know, works!!! to route IP between 4 systems without having to reboot the router every day is the day I buy another companies products.  Wait!!!! I already did.... 

And frankly, In my opinion if they don't want to be in the business of providing products to those market segments, then they should get out of the business of targeting products at them.  From my experience, they are, one customer at a time... And maybe they might even want to stop buying companies whose entire lines of business are the markets that you say they are stating that they don't want.  (And no, I actually hadn't heard that they had an interest in withdrawing from those markets.)

All I know is that I won't buy another overpriced, underperforming Cisco product - or another "works for a while then quits Linksys" - which has been experience with every Linksys-branded device I've bought in the last 2 years or so - as long as Cisco owns them.

What anyone else does is, of course, up to them.

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Reschke - you don't need to worry about QOS on the switch, or SNMP.  You aren't going to ever perform software monitoring of the switch - you are going to plug it in and then it's going to be like an ethernet cable - it just works. And you aren't going to be simultaneously running 2 or more different (anything) to any one device that are so bandwidth intensive on your home network that you will EVER need to care whether some packets have priority over others or not.

Where you might potentially someday care is at the router, but even that's not all that likely. 

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[OOZ662]

From my own research, I've found the problem with Linksys to be the firmware, not the hardware. Not sure if they ever got around to fixing it, but their routers used to keep connections ready for a ridiculously long time (over a day; I think near a week). During high stress, most notably P2P file sharing, this cache would pile up and lock the router, requiring a reboot. I experienced the same thing with my WRT54GL; it needed to be reset daily. However, I installed Hyperwrt 2.1b1 + Thibor15c firmware and have had to reset it four times in the years since.

Originally, I installed the firmware to bridge it and a WRT54G together instead of buying a more expensive network adapter for the xBox 360 in the livingroom. It worked great until a few people began cluttering the airwaves out here and I ran a 60ft cable instead.