been in ava alot lately

[doomed]

cant keep a cable connection for over 30 minutes lately so been in ava more and more. Our squad has made a comitment to fly here more but i will tell you why most stay away. There needs to be a limited icon range. Maybe 600 or so but sorry but thats a fact.

Most guys might give up there perk ride for a fun arena but its no fun fighting a guy that dives to the deck and you cant see him cuz your eyes aint 20/20. a very short icon range will increase  the fun and take the fight off the deck.

This is just my opinion but ive head many many others say the same. A short icon range will help the ava arena.

[jimson]

No enemy icons is a setting that some people feel increases "immersion" provides a new kind of challenge and really sets the arena apart from all others.

When I first started flying in AvA the icons were on and there were fewer people in it than there are these days.

If it was felt that the no icons setting was deterring more people than it is attracting, it would have been changed back long ago.

It's not for everyone, but the general consensus is that having an AvA arena with enemy Icons off is more of a draw than having one with them on.

[Oldman731]

It's not for everyone, but the general consensus is that having an AvA arena with enemy Icons off is more of a draw than having one with them on.

True.  Doomed, the no-icon thing does take a few hours of flying to get used to (I figure four as a general target).  If someone is willing to invest that amount of time, it really does make a huge difference.  As Humble has said elsewhere, suddenly the WWII accounts you've read make a lot more sense.

- oldman

[jimson]

I believe Doomed has been flying AvA for awhile now, so I don't think experience is the issue for him.

Perhaps playing with video settings may help some and higher resolution isn't necessarily better.

I saw the enemy AC better on my old obsolete system, than I do now with a fairly good one.

[grumpy37]

Doomed and i chatted about this a little earlier on 200 and we agreed to disagree.  If any icon range was to be turned on at all might as well call it another colored MA  IMHO.  It would just be another MA with a limited plane set and give 99% of players no reason to leave the cannon wagon perk rides they love so much in the MA..  Again just my opinion but I know the total difference in arenas is the reason i have spent so much time in the AvA the last few days and plan on calling it my new home so to speak.  The limited plane set has forced me to learn new planes i never would have picked in the MA.  The lack of enemy icon and even short range friendly icons add an extra level of difficulty and realism that is unmatched in any other arena.  And to be honest the vast majority of players that are turned off because of the no icon and lack of perk ride are the players the AvA group does not want. We can get picked, hoed and horded in all the other arenas. 

[Puma44]

To quote (Tricky) Oldman's post; "suddenly the WWII accounts you've read make a lot more sense".      And be assured, the accounts from the Korean War, Vietnam, Gulf War, etc. will all back that up.  If I'm off base here, please correct me, but AHII is a WWII and WWI air combat game, or maybe a better description is simulation, with historically accurate aircraft, weapons, etc.

In any air combat of the past or in the future, it's not based on a "meet me and my buds at 20,000 feet over the river and we will duke it out from there" scenario.  Air Combat is not a chess game played on a level playing surface.  It is conflict in the air taking what ever advantage is available to kill the other guy.  If that means diving to the deck to lose your opponent and his 2 or 3 buds, so be it.  If it means pitching up vertically in your superior climbing ride to outrun your opponent, so be it.  Air Combat is all about dealing with rapidly changing situations, countering them, and moving on to the next conflict.

The AVA setup with no icons is evolving into a very near world scenario.  Having icons to make it easy to close on your opponent and get the kill doesn't seem to fit in with the reality that the AVA staffers are so skillfully working toward.  It seems that most everyone who has come into the "no icon" scenario has had the 3-4 hour learning curve that Jimson and others have mentioned and have come to appreciate the reality of actual air combat.  Use of a historically accurate gunsight can provide an effective method of ranging to an opponent.

There are some who have gravitated to the AVA's no icon setup (me for one) to escape the horde mentality that sometimes develops in the 11 other arenas that have full up icons available 24/7.  It's been my observation that the AVA numbers have increased due to the reality experienced with no icons, and of course, Ranger's awesome Twin Rivers terrain.  Giving the no icon setup some time and a fair try out is sure to provide a better immersion into real world air combat.  Thinking about it in basic terms, we have very accurate aircraft to fly and they have these big neon signs above them.  Historically accurate?    Yes, the icons are a necessity designed in by HTC and company and give fledgling aviators in the game a big boost in situational awareness.  But, for those who have developed a level of in game experience and desire more immersion..........well, there's the AVA.

And yes, we all have different computer systems, monitors, etc. that require all of us to deal with many limitations and issues.  Me, I deal with it, adapt, overcome (yeah, a little Clint Eastwood) and enjoy the great efforts of HTC and his gang, to include the AVA staff.  Thanks again, Gents!    

[Puma44]

Grumpy,
Ya forgot vulching    Recieved my first AVA vulch   tonight.  Apparently a sign of desperation when it was 14 of them against 8 of us.   

[grumpy37]

where do i get my historically accurate gunsight......

[captain1ma]

<EDIT>For the last 2 years we had icons on, and no one came in. people even asked why HTC didnt just shut down the AVA or use it for something else. So now we get a bit creative and we turn off icons and get a new map in there and all of a sudden we get a large influx of people that really enjoy playing with the no enemy icons and like it.

now we have 2 or 3 players that are requesting that we put icons back or make them limited range? where were you guys 2 years ago?

with the no icons, i get picked, i get nailed from afar, i even get ho'ed. i learn to fly and fight while looking over my shoulder or hoping the guys around me will help keep an eye on my back! i am very vocal about check 6's and i hope that other people will respond in kind. one must learn to adjust to this particular part of the game. maybe you should read the book "who moved my cheese"! its the same thing. one must be fluid and learn to adjust, rather then always force things back to status quo.

instead of complaining about it, why not grab someone you don't know, and ask them to work with you, to cover your 6 as a wing-man. this way you have someone to help you hopefully, and you might make a new friend in the process. this would make it easier for you, and maybe you would have a new potential squaddie in the making. 

where do i get my historically accurate gunsight......

grumpy, i have a large file full of gunsites squirreled away somewhere. my computer crashed last night, but i think i have them online. if i do, i can send you the file.

[Shifty]

If you put out limited enemy icons, then people will ask for even more icon range. You guys might try one week with AVA icons set to MA standards and see if it would bring more people in... I doubt it because the bad reputation  limited planeset and low player numbers is really what most people don't like. At least you'd know for sure and you could say you gave it a shot and put the debate over icons to bed. Just a thought.

[grumpy37]

<EDIT>
grumpy, i have a large file full of gunsites squirreled away somewhere. my computer crashed last night, but i think i have them online. if i do, i can send you the file.

Sweet, then i could blame you for my poor gunnery...  

If you put out limited enemy icons, then people will ask for even more icon range. You guys might try one week with AVA icons set to MA standards and see if it would bring more people in... I doubt it because the bad reputation  limited planeset and low player numbers is really what most people don't like. At least you'd know for sure and you could say you gave it a shot and put the debate over icons to bed. Just a thought.

I think its funny, if everyone that complained about it not having enough people in it came in they would probably need to put a cap on it........   And for the ones the complain about the limited planeset,  go out on a limb and learn something new.  Just cause its not the ubber plane doesnt mean it wont be fun to fly.  



Forgot my  to Doomed...  Hope you stay around, lots of fun fights.

[1701E]

On the topic of Icons I have a question, would it be possible to turn off or turn down enemy Gv icons?  I don't know if that's an adjustable setting but it would be nice if it is to have it changed.  AvA has been great fun with no Plane Icons and the current map but the GV icons on make GV fights a bit....annoying.
Just my opinion/question of course.

[doomed]

I'm not asking for icons a mile away and Ive been in ava solid for well over a month now. Its not seeing the bad guys, believe me i get and land my fair share of kills and usually die as the result of a collision or HO(just ask seadog who is mad at me). Let me see if i can put it another way. Everyone wants realism and no icons but have no problem with a radar ring the size of Texas covering the entire map that can be seen while flying and if i recall most ww2 aircraft did not have operational air to air radar. So now that the we love the realism thing seems less important what I'm trying to say is this is my experience and ALOT of my squads,some of who wont even play here now.  You take off and climb to alt wich isn't much because the bases are on top of each other but maybe 10k or so and you see the con who is almost allways a green colored aircraft. You engage and get the drop on  him. BOOM he hits the deck and since this is a game and not a real 3d world it becomes very very hard to pick up a guy that you was on because of a non real world environment and you spend the next frantic 20 seconds looking for him to no avail as he is back at base. What I'm saying is NO icons till about 600 that way once you have engaged someone and pass each other and he hits the deck you dint have to pray he dint blend in perfect and strain your eyes looking for him. This would not effect a bounce or SA or anything it would just help to encourage a fight to last till the end that is all.

If we want realism than reduce the dar ring and dint allow you to see the dar while in flight. I'm just saying lol.

I respect all your views and opinions and will still play there from time to time but you guys allways ask in the forums how to improve or bring in a crowd and FSO style icon range could help.

[Puma44]

"he hits the deck and since this is a game and not a real 3d world it becomes very very hard to pick up a guy that you was on because of a non real world environment and you spend the next frantic 20 seconds looking for him"

Guess what?  It's exactly like that in the real 3D world, frantic.  That's the reason it's called a dogfight. Surely you don't expect this guy that you just got the drop on to just hang there and let you have him.  It's combat and that means you or he goes home, not both.  It's all about gaining the advantage on the other guy and then pounding him in the dirt. If you get the drop on me, I'm going to do everything I can to counter and get the drop on you. Ya want to climb out to the Hootasphere?  Climb out away from your base and the threat and just do it. Air Combat, by it's nature, is not fair by any stretch of the imagination.  If someone is going to play in the arena, in game or real world, they have to deal with all the limitations, advantages, and just plain bad luck.

The AVA staff appear to be trying to make it real world as much as possible.  That includes, no icons, dust storms, hazy sky, etc.  Yeah, the radar rings are an issue.  So are a lot of things.  But, again it's a matter of just dealing with it and having fun.  After all, it's only a game, it only costs $14.95 a month, and offers 12 arenas to play in.  Why is it so important to make the AVA just like the rest of the arenas?

This afternoon the AVA had several who were intent on spraying golden juice on each other for "who cares" issues.  It was almost time to call 9-whine-whine and roll a whambulance.

I have to agree with others who have said that if the AVA doesn't suit a person's needs, feel free to go to one of the other arenas. There is way less realism, way more icons, and hordes.  

[gyrene81]

Doomed obviously hasn't gotten the hang of judging distance with the no enemy icons. At D600 you can tell what kind of airplane it is that you're looking at, and using the zoom button it's possible to identify a con out to almost D1000, especially if it's a twin engine or bigger. There are a lot of little things you have to make yourself do in order to spot someone regardless of whether they are above, below or level to your position. The dar settings are in place because people complained that they don't want to fly around for an hour looking for a fight, so that argument isn't getting off the the starting line. Using age as a reason for wanting icons is b.s. since most of us who like the AvA the way it is are over 40 and suffer from some sort of vision issue that comes with age. Quality of the computer isn't much of an argument because I know a couple of people who are not using high end computers and do quite well in the AvA.

And last but not least, believe it or not, the FSO would be almost the same settings as the AvA if it weren't for the fact that 400 of the 450 people who participate regularly would quit if happened.