109-F4

[Stones]

Any help with a few tips on how to fight with the 109-F4 ??

New tour, new plane.  Some reason I chose the 109-F4.  I like the EW plane set.  Hard to find a fight lately in there, but still go there regularly.

What do I do with it?  Whats the best cornrer speed? (is there a list?(Lusche ) How do I work it out?).


Just 1 more Q?  If I decide to Immelman on a merge should I aim for getting to corner speed as I come over the top or as I enter?  I ask because I meet bogeys who have done the same merge but have a lot more E than me when it goes nose to nose at the top.
I think that maybe I have gone in so fast and made such a wide arc getting to the top that the separation I created allowed him to gain E in the close.

All 2pence welcome

<S>

[redman555]

Mmm sorry but no advice here, personally hate the 109s.  8 years and still cant fly em, just like 190s.

-BigBOBCH

[BaldEagl]

Fly it like a Spitfire but use flaps and watch your dive speed.  It's a great little plane.

[maddafinga]

The F is my second favorite 109.  Like Baldy says, watch your dive speed, it gets tough to pull out of dives over 400 or so.  You can trim your way out of a dive if you have enough alt though.  Learn to back off your throttle if you're in a hard dive.  Get close to shoot, 300 or less, 200 or less optimally, and the one 20 can hurt.  It climbs well, especially on wep, try to keep fights vert against most opponents.  You'll want to be on and off flaps frequently, over the top of vert moves as you get slower into turns too, you'll have to figure out what works best for you there.  It can turn, and turn pretty well, and it accelerates well to boot.  I like to fly it like a KI84, and sort of like I fly my K4 too.  You can really surprise some people in it once you start to get a feel for it. 

As for your second question, keeping in mind that I'm not really very good...

Are you talking about going into this merge in a co E situation?  It sounds like you're possibly misjudging the bad guy's E level going into the merge.  I try to get below the baddie on the merge, then lead immel so long as I don't cross directly in front of his guns.  If you're pulling lightly and making it a big fat immel, you really should have more E than him at the top if he was pulling hard.  You might also be very co E with them but they're just better at floating the plane around near a stall.  It's hard to say without film.  Again, keep in mind that I'm not that good at this stuff yet. 

If you see me on, feel free to holler at me and I'll happily hit  the DA with you to work on that kind of thing though.  Good luck.

[Ruah]

the back pannel sucks, and getting used having a wall behind you was the hardest part about the plane. 

Turns great with good flap work, climbs great and stalls in a very predictable and controllable way which is where the real magic of the plane happens imo.  The gun package is really good once you get used to the way you place hits (if  you are used to u.s. or u.k planes especially) and is really effective.  In the early war arena it should be one of the dominant planes. 

Like most people I end up flying the k4 more simply because the 109 needs to be a fast machine against its opponets (unlike the 190 which has the agility factor).

Anyway, post your updates and impressions, I have seen the most crazy things in AH2 done in 109s. . .

[Krusty]

I dislike when folks claim to fly a 109F like a spitfire. It's not a spitfire. It has vices and they will get you killed if you're not careful (unlike a spitty). Get a feel for pulling progressively tighter in a constant turn, feel for when it'll start fighting you, and learn to not go past that point. Don't ride the stall in general, but if you absolutely must pop a notch of flaps (not too many). Watch the rudder, stay on the ball so as not to bleed off E.

Use the guns all at once for a kill shot, but feel free to use the 7mms to "track" the target. Gunnery is rather nice. Don't spray at targets you don't have a chance at hitting. Work for the shot, rather than praying for a kill.

I almost always take 100%+DT, but then I fly longer sorties, often climbing to 20k to avoid 25k rooks and whatnot. I fly to a fight, look around, drop the tank, burn some internal, etc, so I am not too heavy when I have to fight. However your normal sortie profile goes, try to figure that you'll have 50% ro 75% (at most) by the time you're in a fight. You get down to 25% and you should start thinking about egress, map-depending (on WEP 25% goes really fast, and it might take you 5 minutes to disengage and RTB).

[R 105]

Look for an older post by Agent360. It is great general advise on fighting with a 109 and some of its flying characteristics. He uses the K-model mostly but the information applies to all the 109s pretty much. In EW it can rule in the hands of a good pilot. I like the 109-F4 and the G2 models the best of the 109s.

[BaldEagl]

Look for an older post by Agent360. It is great general advise on fighting with a 109 and some of its flying characteristics. He uses the K-model mostly but the information applies to all the 109s pretty much.

There's a lot of things you can do with the K by utilizing it's massive tourque that you can't with any of the other 109's.  In fact, IMO there is little similarity between the 109 models.  I guess the E and F are close as are the G-2 and G-6 and also the G-14 and K-4 but crossing those boundries is like flying a different plane.  I prefer the F-4, G-2 and K-4 in each set. 

[Scotch]

You fly the k4 differently than the 09f because ideally you're setting up a different style of shot in the k4 because of the 30mm.

The 09f is very sweet.

[Stones]

Maddafinga thanks for the offer. Will look you up.

I'm in London so normally am on 8 ish GMT.
So far am doing ok in fights but not killing much, just learning when to depart and re-set.
The Spits I'm familiar with are the 1,5 and 9 and I can't say that the 109-F4 feels like any of them.

Just really want some tips on the first merge and how to get the best out of this bird.

I did find something tho'.  On a co-alt merge, where both planes are closing fast, I try to fake my E and rudder skid late to get my speed down to 230 just as we pass the 3-9, then pull hard into an oblique immel'.  If he blows past I have a chance because my turn is almost complete, if he goes high I don't complete the turn but barrel off 90deg' to him. shallow dive and gain E and some separation.  Then re-set.

Doesn't work all the time but I seem to get the fight something like what I want.

Thanks for the input so far

<S>

[Qrsu]

Can't say I am an experten but I'll speak my mind. 

If you enter a merge above 250 IAS you're generally in good shape to pull as hard as you can with the F-4. I tend to try for angles over E in my first merge in 109s unless I'm fighting something like a Zero or Brewster in which case a lazier immelman works a lot more in my experience. Anyway, if you manage to get around the first merge quicker than your opponent you can base the next few moves on whether he engaged in the turn as well or is zooming off. If they've turned, game on; if not, seperate a bit to get some E and just re-initiate the merge afterward (if he doesn't run that is).

I recommend getting used to turning earlier during the merges and using flaps when available. Keep the flaps in when you feel the need to gather speed but the 109 is very stable with the flaps out - allowing for nose high turns for better position during scissors in the eventual fight.

The 109s also possess significant amount of torque... the K-4 is an extreme example of this. The F-4 is a not as great in that regard but it still has the same characteristics to a lesser extent. I use this torque mostly during a high yo-yo or rope situation - rolling left at the crest, full rudder, chopping throttle for a moment w/ flaps out, gunning the throttle to go over and dropping the nose earthward very quickly to allow for a very steep descent for a shot opportunity or simply to gain position behind the opponent. This might not be a 100% accurate description but I'm sure most fellow 109 dweebs know what I'm talking about here and can probably correct me if need be.  This is also helpful if you've stalled over the top and need to quickly regain control... the torque more or less assures that you'll come out of any stall in control (cool, huh?).

However, I do not recommend doing this throughout a prolonged rolling scissors. Especially in the F-4. Hold onto your E as much as you can and use flaps accordingly.

I did find something tho'.  On a co-alt merge, where both planes are closing fast, I try to fake my E and rudder skid late to get my speed down to 230 just as we pass the 3-9, then pull hard into an oblique immel'.  If he blows past I have a chance because my turn is almost complete, if he goes high I don't complete the turn but barrel off 90deg' to him. shallow dive and gain E and some separation.  Then re-set.

I don't know the exact prime cornering speed with flaps in for the F-4 but generally speaking 250-280 IAS on a merge is good if you're working for angles. I wouldn't be too worried about entering the merge a little faster as you can drop flaps through the maneuver if you're pulling max deflection. This is going to not only allow for a tighter radius but also increase the rate of your turn rather than entering at 230 IAS.

 
Cursed