Author Topic: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates  (Read 2028 times)

Offline Squire

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Re: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2010, 06:47:27 PM »
Erprobungskommando 152 was a flight test unit at Rechlin. The only operator of the Ta 152H in a combat role was a Stabsschwarm (flight) of JG 301 commanded by Oberstliuetnant Aufhammer in March of 1945. Thats according to John Weals book on Fw190 aces.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2010, 08:05:58 PM »
Wmaker - Were first deployed to a operational role in a unit in its current version in AH.
The dates listed are inconsistent with that.

Spitfire Mk XIV was operational on Jan. 10, 1944 and got its first kill in March, 1944.

M0squito Mk XVI began reaching squadrons in Jan. 1944 and flew its first ops in March, 1944.

Not sure if you have the Spitfire Mk XVI dated as a Mk XVI or as a LF.Mk IXe, but it should be dated as the LF.Mk IXe.
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Offline Scherf

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Re: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2010, 08:53:44 PM »
Sharp and Bowyer's Mighty Tome on the Mosquito has 418 Squadron receiving FB.VIs with Merlin 25s in May of 1943.
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Saxman

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Re: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2010, 09:27:36 PM »
Didn't this come up a couple months ago? As I mentioned back then:

F4U-1 seems about right, first deployed in combat in 2-43.

The F4U-1A is a little trickier, however, since it's a back-dated designation. However I don't think I've seen reference to any recognizable 1As operational prior to late-summer of 1943 (we're looking August at the earliest). If we're going by "its current version in AH," then we're DEFINITELY looking at mid- to late-1944, as our 1A is a late version (R-2800-8(W) engine and paddle prop).

NO F4U-1Ds were on the front lines prior to January or February 1945. All Corsairs in combat in 1944 were 1As and leftover -1s, and our 1D in particular is certainly not an early version in any case (the first 1Ds still had the partially framed canopy present in the 1A).

Our -4 can be considered an early model, as it still has that big frame over the pilot's head and the curved windscreen.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2010, 09:55:25 PM »
Before it's graphical update the Typhoon was a frankenstein monster. It had the power curve of one version, the prop blade count denoting another version, and the physical traits denoting yet a third version.

I don't believe that when the graphics were updated the flight model was changed at all.

You will need to compare the power curves to truly tell which version we have, despite any graphics (such as car door vs bubble hood). That is really what is important with our typhie.

The I-16 first received its M62 engine in early 1939. Given time for prototypes and then production, I think it is safe to say that 1939 is a good date for the I-16 in AH. This also plays into the fact that it was around in the many thousands by the time that Germany invaded in 1941. It would take time to produce and distribute so many thousands of planes by the time this invasion came around.


You list the FW190A5 as 6/43, and maybe that's specific to this model... But it's also 99% identical to the 190A4, and several other 190 models. The A-4 was introduced in July of '42, and however long it took to see combat, I doubt that was a full year. The only differences being about a 6-inch extension on the engine mounts, a first-aid kit in the squared radio hatch, and a different armored head-rest.

The 190A-5 is also very similar to many early jabo planes, such as the F-1. Often times all it took was a single centerline bomb to denote the plane was attack (keep in mind, 109E, 109F, etc, a single centerline bomb was all it took), and often these had different designations such as F-1, F-3, etc. These dates must also be taken into consideration when thinking about the timeline for our 190A-5's inclusion into a setup.


I have to wholeheartedly agree with Baumer on this one. It's nice to use as a reference, but foolish to use as the ONLY reference, for setting up some planeset, event, situation, etc. The entire thing is far too dynamic and un-even (gaps in planeset, etc) to leave it up to "just" the dates...

Offline kilo2

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Re: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2010, 10:11:23 PM »
Erprobungskommando 152 was a flight test unit at Rechlin. The only operator of the Ta 152H in a combat role was a Stabsschwarm (flight) of JG 301 commanded by Oberstliuetnant Aufhammer in March of 1945. Thats according to John Weals book on Fw190 aces.

They flew fully armed though they did not search out combat. Really it comes down to what you consider "combat role."

Source is Focke Wulf Ta-152 by Thomas Hitchcock
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 10:15:19 PM by kilo2 »
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Offline Wmaker

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Re: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2010, 03:56:16 AM »
Mister Fork,

Sorry for the late reply. Yep, March is good for the Brewster. Unfortunately I don't have the exact date when the I-16 Type 24 entered service but January 1940 sounds good to me. Type 24 was still in development and state trials during August-September 1939. Type 24 was the standard production I-16 variant of 1940. There were 155 Type 24s built during the end of 1939. Additionally 16 Type 28s (2x20mm) were built in the end of 1939. If Type 24 managed to get into the units before 1940 it must have been very late 1939. So either January 1940 or December 1939 sounds good.

Source: Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War Volume One - Single Engined Fighters by Gordon and Khazanov


The I-16 first received its M62 engine in early 1939. Given time for prototypes and then production, I think it is safe to say that 1939 is a good date for the I-16 in AH.

I-16 in AH is powered with an M-63, not M-62.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 03:57:56 AM by Wmaker »
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2010, 07:40:24 AM »
They flew fully armed though they did not search out combat. Really it comes down to what you consider "combat role."

Source is Focke Wulf Ta-152 by Thomas Hitchcock

The lone Ki-61 prototype stumbled on the Doolittle Raiders and started to engage them.   The only problem is his guns wouldn't fire.   

As for the 152's, I'd have to say the dates are close to correct.   
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Offline Wotan

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Re: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2010, 08:39:49 AM »


Quote
I-16 type 4
first production. number comes from fourth model of airplane at plant21 after i-5, hai-1, i-14.
prod ~1934

I-16 type 5 with m-25a. named "mosca"(="fly")
prod 1935/mid to 1938/02, major production
delivered to spain 1936/oct/late-1936/nov/early, first batch, 31 planes
delivered to spain 1937/may/7, second batch, 31 planes
delivered to china 1937/oct-1939/sep, 885 planes. 1250 until 1941.
action in china (over nankin) 1937/nov/21: 7 i-16 killed 3 japanese planes without loses.

I-16 type 6 with m-25a (I-16 type 5 with 2 more shkas), 30 pieces.
few samples, flown in spain.

I-16 type 10 with m-25v (4 shkas, instead of 2). named "super mosca"
delivered to spain 1938/mar, 31 pieces

I-16 type 12 with m-25v (I-16 type 10 rearmed with 2 shvaks to 2 shkas)
state trials 1939/sep

I-16 type 17 with m-25v (I-16 type 10 rearmed with 2 shvaks to 2 shkas)
prod ~1938 major production
state trials 1939/sep

1939/aug rs-82 used over halkin gol from i-16 in air-to-air attack.
1939/second half m-62 used on i-16 (from i-153 spare repair kits)

I-16 type 18 with m-62 (I-16 type 10 reengined)
prod ~1939 early, 177 pieces.

I-16 type 27 with m-62 (I-16 type 17 reengined)

I-16 type 24 with m-63 (I-16 type 18 reengined)
934 pieces.

I-16 type 28 with m-63 (I-16 type 27 reengined)
293 pieces

I-16 type 29 with m-63 (UB version, jabo. however, 2xFAB or 6xRS-82 could be manufacctured at previous versions)
prod second half 1940, 650 pieces

sorry, maslov's monography has narrative style and it's hard to extract numbers and dates from it.

src: maslov "fighter i-16" ISBN 5-94038-071-9

Offline Mister Fork

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Re: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2010, 12:57:55 PM »
Guys - thanks again for helping clarify the varying roles.  I think we can denote several aircraft we have as potential substitutes for other models.  However, the larger picture is that if we have a particular model, for example, the Fw-190A-5, and it can sub for an A3 or A4 variant easily, let's make that distinction.  Same for the tiffy. Let me do that for:
Tiffy*
FW-190A5
I-16

When posting dates, as always, include your reference material.  I'm not here to decide which book is more accurate than another.  As with all historical reference books, the dates listed are often as subjective as the authors attempts to ensure accuracy with their research.  Sometimes, they go so far to find actual pilot log books to see what was active when.

SAX - here is the list of the F4U's - can you put in your recommended service dates that would best fit our current lineup and works well with our scenarios?
---
F4U-1 ... 2-43(ETO),4-44(ETO)
F4U-1A ... 4-43(PTO),12-43(ETO)
F4U-1D ... 4-44
F4U-1C ... 4-45
F4U-4 ... 4-45
---

Karnak - can you post your recommended dates for the spitfires and BOTH variants of our Mosquitos (the new one)?

(Keep in mind, arena admins can limit weapon loadouts if we wish to simulate a particular earlier variant.)
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Offline Perrine

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Re: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2010, 04:12:42 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)


nice looking Russian F-16 :cool:

(Fighter = Istrebitel)

Offline Saxman

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Re: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2010, 05:27:13 PM »
Guys - thanks again for helping clarify the varying roles.  I think we can denote several aircraft we have as potential substitutes for other models.  However, the larger picture is that if we have a particular model, for example, the Fw-190A-5, and it can sub for an A3 or A4 variant easily, let's make that distinction.  Same for the tiffy. Let me do that for:
Tiffy*
FW-190A5
I-16

When posting dates, as always, include your reference material.  I'm not here to decide which book is more accurate than another.  As with all historical reference books, the dates listed are often as subjective as the authors attempts to ensure accuracy with their research.  Sometimes, they go so far to find actual pilot log books to see what was active when.

SAX - here is the list of the F4U's - can you put in your recommended service dates that would best fit our current lineup and works well with our scenarios?
---
F4U-1 ... 2-43(ETO),4-44(ETO)
F4U-1A ... 4-43(PTO),12-43(ETO)
F4U-1D ... 4-44
F4U-1C ... 4-45
F4U-4 ... 4-45
---

Karnak - can you post your recommended dates for the spitfires and BOTH variants of our Mosquitos (the new one)?

(Keep in mind, arena admins can limit weapon loadouts if we wish to simulate a particular earlier variant.)

Already said it:

F4U-1/C and 4 are fine
F4U-1A no earlier than 7/8-43
F4U-1D no earlier than 1-45
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Offline Mister Fork

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Re: Official Aircraft and Vehicle Service Dates
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2010, 11:38:44 AM »
Edit #7 - updates for Typhoon and several F4U variants. Added new Mossie

This should be our final version for a while...

Aircraft and Vehcile Service Dates
LAST Updated: September 16, 2010

Aircraft
USA
A-20G ... 5-42
B-17G ... 6-43
B-25C ... 1-41
B-25H ... 9-44
B-24J ... 5-43
B-26B ... 5-42
C-47A ... 12-41
P-38G ... 11-42
P-38J ... 12-43(ETO) 2-44(PTO)
P-38L ... 7-44
P-39D .... 10-41(ETO), 4-42(PTO), 5-42(EF)
P-39Q ... 10-43 (PTO) 11-43 (EF) 1-44 (MTO)
P-40B ... 1-41
P-40E ... 8-41
P-47D-11 ... 3-43(D5) to 1-44(D11)
P-47D-25 ... 5-44
P-47D-40 ... 1-45(ETO)
P-47N ... 6-45
P-51B ... 12-43(ETO),8-44(CBI)
P51D ... 5-44(ETO),1-45(CBI&PTO)
F4F-4 ... 9-41(ETO),5-42(PTO)
FM-2 ... 6-44(ETO),10-44(PTO)
F6F-5 ... 7-44
F4U-1 ... 2-43(ETO),4-44(ETO)
F4U-1A ... 7-43(PTO),12-43(ETO)
F4U-1D ... 1-45
F4U-1C ... 4-45
F4U-4 ... 4-45
F6F-5 ... 7-44
SBD-5 ... 5-43
TBM-3 ... 2-43

Britain
Boston MK III ... 5-41
Hurricane Mk I ... 5-40
Hurricane IIC ... 4-41
Hurricane IID ... 6-42
Lancaster III ... 3-42
Mosquito Mk VI ... 7-43(ETO),11-43(PTO&CBI)
Mosquito B.XVI ... 1-44(ETO)
Spitfire Mk IA ... 8-40
Seafire IIC ... 10-42,11-43(ETO)
Spitfire V ... 4-41
Spitfire VIII ... 7-43
Spitfire Mk IX ... 7-42
Spitfire Mk XIV ... 5-44,7-45(CBI)
Spitfire Mk XVI ... 7-44
Tempest V ... 5-44
Typhoon IB ... 11-43*

Finland
B-239 Brewster ... 3-40

Soviet
I-16... 1-40*
Il-2 Type 3 ... 10-42
La-5FN ... 3-43
La-7 ... 6-44
Yak-9T ... 1-43
Yak-9U ... 7/8-44

Italy
C.202 ... 11-41
C.205 ... 1-43

Japan
A6M2 ... 7-40
A6M5b ... 8-43
B5N2  ... 7-40
D3A-1 ... 7-40
Ki-61 ... 6-43
Ki-84-la ... 8-44 (CBI),10-44(PTO)
Ki-67 ... 4-44
N1K2-J ... 1-45

Germany
Ar 234B ... 12-44
Bf 109E-4 ... 5-40
Bf 109F-4 ... 6-41
Bf 109G-2 ... 6-42
Bf 109G-6 ... 2-43
Bf 109G-14 ... 7-44
Bf 109K-4 ... 10-44
Bf 110C-4b ... 8-40
Bf 110G-2 ... 5-42
Fw 190A-5 ... 6-43*
Fw 190A-8 ... 2-44
Fw 190D-9 ... 12-44
Fw 190F-8 ... 4-44
Ju 88A-4 ... 5-41
Me 262 ... 10-44
Me 163 ... 9-44
Ta 152H ... 1-45

Vehicles
USA
LVT(A)2 ...2-44
LVT(A)4 ...3-44
M-3 Halftrack...3-41
M-8 ...9-42
M-16 ...5-43
Sherman VC ...6-44(ETO)
M4A1 ...9-42(ETO), 1-43(PTO)
M4A3(76) ...7-44

Germany
Ostwind ... 8-44
Panzer IV Type H ... 8-44
Tiger I ...8-42
SdKfz 251...6-40
Wirbelwind...4-44

Soviet
T-34/76 ... 2-43
T-34/85 ...2-44

Theatres of Operations
ETO - Europe
MTO - Mediterranean
PTO - Pacific
CBI - China-Burma-India/CHINA-BURMA-INDIA

Notes:
* - due to the similiarity to earlier varients, this aircraft can be used as a substitute for earlier models.
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