The WWI arena today

[BaldEagl]

How many times have you been ganged in the MA? Do you still go there? Get your feelings hurt much??  Ganging happens, sad but true. Man up and come on back. Fly smart and take a ganging or to.....get picked while in a ten minute turn fight....get a kill or two. There are peeps in the arena who will help ya and respect the 1v1.  Just like the MA.

 

I get ganged plenty in the MA but there I have a choice.  If I prefer not to give that a go I can go somewhere else and find something different.  In WWI there is only one option.

My feelings weren't hurt in the least.  I didn't have fun.  I left.

Man up?  Who are you?  Internet tough guy?

[perdue3]

WW1 Dogfighting requires skill. It is a pure and raw stick skills arena. That my friends, is intriguing.


perdweeb

[SCTusk]

Talking about magic special red baron and alot of players want that?  Are you sniffing glue? WW1ARENA IS ALMOST EMPTY

I just don't see how the current 1v1 'code' is going to help increase numbers; the Red Baron suggestion (if realised - yeah right) would be an attempt to stir up more interest. You said it yourself, the arena is almost empty,  that's happened with the current tendency to duel 1v1 in place (and chastise anyone who jumps in). Which indicates a change is needed. 1v1 duels are fine and a valid part of the WW1 experience, but so are 3v1, 6v1 (Voss, wasn't it?) massive furballs and if we could swing it a host of other cool stuff. Had a blast in there earlier today with about six each side, it varied and nobody complained, there were many instances of 2, 3 and 4 on 1, and nobody complained. But I think most of the guys were mainly WW2 who drop in from time to time, as opposed to the regulars. Great fights though 

Also, I never made the claim that 'alot of players want that' in regards to the Red Baron idea. But I am building an RC model a/c next to my PC at the moment so there may be some inadvertent glue sniffing involved 

[Yeager]

I am building an RC model a/c next to my PC at the moment so there may be some inadvertent glue sniffing involved 

What are you building?

[Yeager]

WW1 Dogfighting requires skill. It is a pure and raw stick skills arena. That my friends, is intriguing.


perdweeb

Negative.  Look at it like this: In strategic analysis there are four concentric circles.  The first outer circle is the global kneepad telling you what is happening and where on the map.  The next circle is what you see once in the air as far as your eyes can pick up dots, their relative distance and altitude.  The next circle is who and what you allow within Icon range.  The last smallest circle is the guns circle.  ANYTHING within this circle can kill you.  You have three higher levels of knowledge that you use to dictate the fight you are entering into. The fourth and final  smallest circle is where you win or lose based on decisions you made in the three higher level Circe's.  What you do with the stick is moot if you cannot enter the fight on good terms. Analyzing and acting on the data you get from the first three Circe's is what puts you in position to kill your opponent.  

Then again there is the "dueling mentality" where the entire concept of strategic analysis has no value.
Fun is instead measured by how many minutes you and your opponent can fly around each other in Circe's, gaining and losing advantage until someone gets killed.  There is a LOT more this game has to offer than just dueling.  Getting people to fly around and wait for you and your opponent to finish your duel is boring for me and I imagine, most other people.  Hence, one of the reasons 8 people in there is a large crowd.

There is a lot more in common bewteen WW1 and WW2 when it comes to air combat then some people seem to realize.

[meandog]

wow yeager....boy have you said a mouthful....lol..I may be wrong but ww1 was the start on the basics of dogfighting and are still in effect 2day. So sure for that aspect ww1 and ww2 fighting could be said to be the same. But the fight itself is no where near the same. In ww1 you have got to actually be sharper than ww2. If you enjoy recieving a good gangbang then you should know what I mean. Although ww1 crates are much slower the action is alot faster than ww2. If you dont have ya SA going with good mojo you will die over and over. Oh..BTW..without great stik skills, how do you expect to stay alive for very long?

As far as the gangbang discussion goes.....BRING IT!! I do understand that if there is only a couple on then I would like to observe the 1vs1 rule. I dont mind taking on 2 or 3 at a time. I will win sometimes and lose others...oh well...it's fun. It's when a good stik comes on and gets hammered by 5 or more that is sensless to me.

[Yeager]

what the mouthfull basically says is that SA is just as important in WW1 as it is to this day.  The only real difference is engagement distances and weapons deployed.  

I may not be the sharpest tool in the A2A shed but I try to make up for it by entering the fights smartly.
Since the WW1 arena has basically evolved into a 1v1 dueling arena it loses one important aspect that I enjoy:  Thinking my way into fluid  dynamic air battle campaign.  Two guys rolling around in DR1s for ten minutes until one is dead can only go so far in generating and keeping my interest.  Another problem I encounter with the stale holding off for the two duelers is that once one is dead the other is usually either wounded, shot up or so discombobulated by the whole affair that they are simple pickings on the plate.....bah!

Also: As you alluded to in your post being a "great stick" will only get you so far.  

[715]

I find WWI very limiting compared to WWII, but then I'm not very good at it.  The planes have so much drag that even if you start with an alt advantage the E is lost so fast that you can't even extend beyond gun range before taking serious damage. I've tried to use the F.2B in the b&z mode because it's faster than the ubiquitous Dr1, but I haven't had much success.  The differential in speed is so low, less than 8 mph, that it takes forever to extend beyond gun range.  If the Dr1 reverses onto your 6 at 200 yds after you close on him, then it takes 3.5 minutes to extend to 1000 yds during which you're taking hits.  It's like trying to jog away from someone with a long range machine gun.  No matter if you go down, up, or straight you can't get out of gun range without being damaged; once you enter a fight you are committed to a turning battle.

It sort of works if the targets are occupied (which violates the "duel" mentality) but it's very unsatisfying.  I basically get kills on planes I've pinged very lightly which run into trees or are damaged beyond repair by someone else who dies first.  Then there is the problem of ripping your wings in a dive.  The range of useful speeds is very narrow and it seems like everything devolves to a turn on a dime battle that the Dr1 wins most of the time. 

I guess I just haven't been able to figure out WWI.

[SCTusk]

I find WWI very limiting compared to WWII

I remember years ago seeing a game of 'Kick' (actually I don't even know if that's what it was called) on the oil and gas rigs in outback Australia. A small crowd of roughnecks had gathered around the two combatants, and were betting sizeable sums on the outcome. The protagonists were stood facing each other with hands on each other's shoulders, and were slowly taking it in turns to kick each other's legs with their heavy rig boots, neither trying to avoid the blows as they swung in. Apparently the game would continue amid the grunting and shouting until one or the other threw in the towel.

I noticed that despite neither of them moving around much, and although it was winter (it gets bloody cold in the desert in winter) both men were sweating profusely as they stared menacingly into each others eyes, and I wondered why. Nor were they kicking all that hard, as far as I could tell. I commented to one of the other bystanders that there didn't seem to be much to the game. He gave me one of those looks, you know, like 'What?... ahhh... a noob'. So I elaborated, and said there weren't exactly alot of options.

He said that in addition to kicking shins they also had the option of kicking each other in the balls. I thought about it for a moment then asked if anyone had ever done that. He gave me that look again and said 'Not that I'm aware of'.

As with the simple roughneck game of 'Kick' the WW1 arena has hidden complexity.... you never know if the other guy is about to kick you in the balls. At least that's how it should be, but 1v1 Gentleman's Rules puts pressure on everyone to kick softly. Where's the fun in that?

What are you building?

Well I've deviated (steady) from my usual size park flyers and picked up a Guillows balsa kit of a Fairchild 24, a 25inch span old timer meant for rubber power; but I'm having none of that, and intend to shovel a little 1812 brushless motor and 3 channel radio into it. Some nice relaxing rudder flying for the calm summer days ahead   

[onerka]

Hi 715...

Thanks for joining us last night.  Your post is pretty accurate for all of us...and it relates to real life.  The life expectation for a WWI pilot in combat was only a couple of weeks.  With some of the planes, notably the camel, more died learning to fly it than in combat.  It was not easy.  Hard to imagine going up over and over in a kite of wood and cloth with a very early engine design, and shooting live ammunition at one another.  In RL there were also many deaths by collision, just as in the arena.

We have one simple advantage...resurrection!

Hope to see you again.  It gets even crazier as the fur balls grow...and people are more distracted by other planes.  You can sneak off and extend in those situations.  Hard to do that with just 3 or 4 guys fighting.

Take care and have fun in there...everyone dies a lot!

One

[perdue3]

I still say more skill is required. I have seen good sticks in MA stall out and crash in WW1. Not that that mean they suck, just saying not only do you have to fly the plane, shoot the other planes, but you also have to keep yourself alive. You can't run, you can't bnZ, you can only get dirty in the soup.


perdweeb

[MajQBall]

Hey guys I am with you I would love to see more people in the WWI arenas.  Hopefully Ranger will have a better map with just one spawn point for each country.  I would like to see Ace high but some recognizance balloons with machine guns on them that each country had to protect.  Maybe some zeppelins as bomber that the pilots had to protect as the zeppelins attracted the airfields and perhaps tanks.  I would defiantly  like to see more variety of planes like the Spad XIII the Albatros and SE5 but we have to wait and see what they come up with.  I like the 1v1 but the  1v2 or 3 is  just as fun just not the 1v5 or 6. The tactics for the WWI planes are different from WWII  you can't  just dive straight in you have to think of the structure of the plane.  The tactic of B&Z will work but in a more limited way you circle above and as they come up you do small slashing attacks.  The hold thing is that you need to find the WWI equivalent of the WWII tactic. I prefer  the Dr1 it is the most structurally sound plane it can handle more Gs than any of the other planes but I think it is harder to fly because it stall more than the others.  The trick is to keep your speed up and don't pull on the stick so much as to slow you down.  Ride it like a wave go with the flow think what it wants to do and do it.  In a loop once you  go over the top it wants to slide to the left so let it for a bit to get our speed up and then turn the direction  you intended. The WWII planes have a more powerful engine and will not suffer in that respect  as much..  Once I master the Dr1 I would like to learn the tricks to the DVII I think it is a superior plane to the DR1.  We need new blood in the WWI arenas  we all need to help the new planers to adjust to these planes.

[meandog]

Great post SCTusk,perdweeb,onerka,MajQBall. Fully agree to all of em. Welcome 715...keep trying. If we could just get more stiks in there the flying gets alot more intense and faster.

[Nosara]

Once we get the Zeppelins and can bomb from altitude the fun will return. Also HT please add lots of Hydrogen to the Zepps..........Boom

[perdue3]

Once we get the Zeppelins and can bomb from altitude the fun will return. Also HT please add lots of Hydrogen to the Zepps..........Boom

Once we add zeppelins and bombs and base capturing we will have no arenas (except the lame DA) where there are no hordes, no base taking BS, and no pure dogfighting.

Add zeppelins, bombs, and other MA BS, WWI loses appeal to the people that enjoy it now. So, if you don't like WWI as it is now, maybe it is because you are a horde dwelling, bomb****ish, base taking twit that lacks the skill to compete in WWI as it is now. My suggestion to those people who want the MA BS added to WWI would be to stay far, far away from WWI Arena. Stay in your hordes fellas.


perdweeb