New Mossi thoughts - the interception problem

[Wolfala]

Having only really flown the cannon bird - I wanted a few thoughts on the new Mossie as it pertains to strategy. Previously with the MOM type missions, we've had just fleets of B-17s and 24s loafing along at 280 TAS - a pain in the bellybutton to deal with but certainly interception is possible with enough planning. Now we have the classic Boost Phase Ballistic Missile Defense problem: DECISION TIME, which also includes any additional time required for communication between country system elements, estimating the performance characteristics of the attackers and their trajectory, resolving uncertainties in the performance of the defense (i.e. if we are launching 47Ms, 163s, 152s, etc), and other operational factors - and communications delays in country to get the word out that something is coming in fast.

The large and unpredictable variations of Mossie trajectories and the short time available for engaging them drive the requirements for any  interceptor.
Factors contributing to uncertainties in the intercept point include:
• Random and systematic errors in the defense detection and tracking system’s measurement of position and velocity and estimate of acceleration of the attacking missile (i.e. RADAR - is it up or down in areas)
• Lack of knowledge of the target (is it going to HQ)
• Normal or induced thrust-time variations of the threat booster (Are they climbing over country to get up to speed or just direct to destination)
• Intentional trajectory shaping, including lofting or depressing the trajectory and
maneuvering to manage energy (If at 30K and they dive to 25K for the attack run to build up escape velocity)
• Intentional evasive maneuvers, such as dog-legs or other maneuvers
• Lack of knowledge of the potential type or characteristics of the threat
These uncertainties reduce the time available for the engagement and require interceptor velocity and acceleration substantially greater than is generally recognized.

All said - I see this bird being a serious pain in the bellybutton to deal with short of blasting up with 163s every time. You essentially have a single pass from a head on and then good luck catching up without burning yr WEP out. Intercept geometry should be limited to front 45 and rear 45 with slashing - no head-on because of losing so much smash in the turn around to re-attack.

[321BAR]

Too...many...big words!

Mossi new is good. mossi need gun!

[Wildcat1]

ive only flown this plane offline, and the sorties i ran were at 20k, 25k, and 30k. in an MA situation, i know that most flyers would be at around 10-15k, so speed would be significantly lower.

during my flights, i topped out at 359 kts TAS with the cookie, and 375 kts TAS without it. this was at 30k with 75% gas

all im saying is, you better be comming in with some E. i doubt anything less than a 152 will be able to keep up with it at altitude. the key is to estimate what altitude they are at, and come in 5k above them, to get your E right back up.

as for 262s, just know that this thing can fly circles around you, so plan your intercept with precision

im not the mossie buff, so anyone (karnak) feel free to correct me if i said something wrong 

[Boozeman]

in an MA situation, i know that most flyers would be at around 10-15k, so speed would be significantly lower.

I would be very surprised if that would be the case. The steep perk price (even more so with formation) and the fact that the Mossie will climb to safer altitudes in a relatively short time will most likely result in altitudes of 25k+ as a norm . 

[Lusche]

It may happen in the near future that less & less players will up for enemy cons doing bombing runs behind the front lines.
It's quite frustrating for players to up a fighter just to realize they can't catch that con at all. And when you then add the fact that those buffs (may it be Mossies or merely the good old Lancs/B-17s) can't "hurt" your side anyway - most of them just bomb a few towns for maximum points instead of risking to face the fierce ack over the strat targets (which don't give nearly as much score as the towns).

Now if the strats were more worth in effect on gameplay AND in score (don't underestimate that factor!), they could be a proper target for the Mossie, and one with a better chance for the defenders to execute a successful interception.

[Mister Fork]

1. Unless countries wish to start high-altitude 262 patrol sorties to intercept potential bombers, the only deterrent/inteceptor is the Me-163. 

2. The mossies have an impressive fast climb rate, even with cookie monster strapped on. If someone creates a monster bombing mission of cookie monsters with 262 as close air support, you'll have one heck of an issue as Wolf pointed out to a) intercept, and b) re-engage after initial pass, especially if the mission is at 25,000ft.

3. The mossies are fairly durable, but a whole lot smaller than any other british or american bomber. She's a good turner as well. At altitude, if a Mossie pilot decides to slightly nose down and egress out of the area, forget any persuit options.

These three points may redefine how the MA operates under the constant threat of a cookie monster attack. 

[SmokinLoon]

The long range high altitude speed demons will see more use.  At 25k and up, the P47's, P38's (to a lesser degree), P51's, and the Ta152 will be the aircraft that will chase down the Mossi B Mk XVI.  The Me262's issue is getting that high, it gets a bit heavy and sluggish at the higher alts.

[Lusche]

The long range high altitude speed demons will see more use.  At 25k and up, the P47's, P38's (to a lesser degree), P51's, and the Ta152 will be the aircraft that will chase down the Mossi B Mk XVI.  The Me262's issue is getting that high, it gets a bit heavy and sluggish at the higher alts.

Actually I had a P-47N and a Ta 152 trying to get my Mossie last night, to no avail

[Infidelz]

A 47M on station at 30k will be the deterrent.

Infidelz

[kvuo75]

A 47M on station at 30k will be the deterrent.

Infidelz

it might be.. but it will still take awhile if the mossie is at 35k  

the one advantage I suppose, is you won't have to patiently set up an attack like you do on bombers with guns, as you can just creep right up on the mossies' 6 with no fears.

[Lusche]

A 47M on station at 30k will be the deterrent.

You have to know where the mossie wants to go.

Today I did fly the Mossie for 5 1/2 hours. Whenever I saw someone could be waiting for me (darbar in sector) is simply switched target.

[321BAR]

ive only flown this plane offline, and the sorties i ran were at 20k, 25k, and 30k. in an MA situation, i know that most flyers would be at around 10-15k, so speed would be significantly lower.

during my flights, i topped out at 359 kts TAS with the cookie, and 375 kts TAS without it. this was at 30k with 75% gas

all im saying is, you better be comming in with some E. i doubt anything less than a 152 will be able to keep up with it at altitude. the key is to estimate what altitude they are at, and come in 5k above them, to get your E right back up.

as for 262s, just know that this thing can fly circles around you, so plan your intercept with precision

im not the mossie buff, so anyone (karnak) feel free to correct me if i said something wrong 

i hit optimum alt fast for a game bomber and had no problems so far. it seems most are doing the same

[Karnak]

A 47M on station at 30k will be the deterrent.

Infidelz

As I recall, endurance wasn't the P-47M's strong point, so that is kinda like saying Spitfire XIVs and Bf109K-4s loitering at 30k will be its deterrent.

I'd expect the P-47N to be a much more potent threat.

[Lusche]

After 24h

I have spent ~8h now in Mossie in altitude level bombing missions.  I was flying at varying altitudes between 17 and 30k, most of the time around 25. I did fly single bomber as well as taking formations into the sky.

Several times did enemies try to intercept me. Most tries failed early & miserably, fighters upping from the very base I was just passing over @25k. Rarely someone seemed to takeoff one or more sector ahead to gain altitude, I was easily able to avoid that by changing course & target (all towns go boom the same way).
Two times fighters followed me hoping to get me landing/on rearm pad, but I had ample fuel to land further inland, one time I simply dropped below darbar altitude - the enemy figher must have thought I was landing on the base in the sector, whereas I did just fly on the deck to the airbase in the next sector.

Only once (in 8 hours flying time!) a Ta 152H was able to catch me @ 28k - after chasing me for 7 sectors in dot vis range! I was dragging him to my own factories, did a high speed dive & some evasives, and got home with a proxy kill.

[Perrine]

As I recall, endurance wasn't the P-47M's strong point, so that is kinda like saying Spitfire XIVs and Bf109K-4s loitering at 30k will be its deterrent.

I'd expect the P-47N to be a much more potent threat.

i saw on military channel or history channel that p47m were only used to chase low alt V1 rockets.
I thought p47m would be faster only at low alt, like tempest