Author Topic: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?  (Read 2710 times)

Offline Brooke

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2010, 03:29:05 PM »
B) Would the US fight its war with a non American main bomber. Can anyone even imagine that?

It would have been like the P-51, which is half British.  American companies would have licensed the design and then built it, like they did with the Packard Merlin, and we would have had, say, "the Ford B-27 Mosquito." :)

Offline Perrine

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2010, 06:32:46 PM »

 i know you're about to try to say that the interceptors would never catch the mossies.......but you would be very wrong.
all that would have been required for them to catch them, would be to be at altitude before the buffs get to their interception point(as they often were anyway). then it would be a matter of diving on them, take the shot, rinse, and repeat. this would have been devastating to the mossies, as the bomber version was(i think) undefended?


look at this and focus @ the speed between 32k feet to 24k feet.

Mosquito vs most common luftwaffe interceptors in 1944






To evade the enemy all mosq had to do is simply hit WEP and dive from 30,000 feet to 25,000 to get to its sweet spot to run away from luft interceptors mentioned above.  There's no way to reposition after first pass, luft interceptors basically have to chase it (like la-7 chasing temp @ deck) until fuel runs out.


Offline Avanti

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2010, 06:55:44 PM »
well think of it this way,

If the US forces did use them to bomb german wouldn't the germans have invented the 163 and 262 much earlier?

eventually they would have to put guns in the mossies which would slow them down to fend off the enemy or bring EVEN MORE
aircraft for escorts.

they would eventually have to go to the bigger bombers because they can take more of a beating, got more guns and a much bigger payload
and even then they would now be dealing with heavily armed aircraft that are faster and harder to hit.

Your question has to many varibles

Avanti

Offline Scherf

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2010, 06:58:01 PM »
Which is why I try to stay out of  woulda coulda shoulda threads.












whoops
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Lusche

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2010, 07:09:35 PM »
If the US forces did use them to bomb german wouldn't the germans have invented the 163 and 262 much earlier?

No.
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2010, 07:15:46 PM »
well think of it this way,

If the US forces did use them to bomb german wouldn't the germans have invented the 163 and 262 much earlier?

When did the Germans 'invent' the 163 and 262?

eventually they would have to put guns in the mossies which would slow them down to fend off the enemy or bring EVEN MORE aircraft for escorts.

How many P-38s, P-47s and P-51s were there?

they would eventually have to go to the bigger bombers because they can take more of a beating, got more guns and a much bigger payload and even then they would now be dealing with heavily armed aircraft that are faster and harder to hit.

No.

Your question has to many varibles

Yes but think it of a war game at War College.

Avanti

Offline MiloMorai

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2010, 07:26:40 PM »
Karnak, you think the Germans would have allowed Mosquitoes to roam freely over Germany?

Do you think the 109K-4 would have appeared earlier with not a fully developed DB605 engine. It might have pushed the introduction of the Dora though.

One target the Allies failed to take out was German power generating stations. Also remember that RAF BC was dropping huge bomb loads on Germany.

Offline Karnak

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2010, 07:45:09 PM »
Karnak, you think the Germans would have allowed Mosquitoes to roam freely over Germany?
Not anymore than they had to, hence my second paragraph.
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Offline Avanti

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2010, 11:06:43 PM »
No.

what makes you say this?
just wondering for my personal gain that's all :)

How many P-38s, P-47s and P-51s were there?

Still sending them would have been an unnecessary risk of life and aircraft
and would also mean more muntions would have to be made, more fuel would be used etc

Offline SIK1

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2010, 12:53:46 AM »
I think the fact most of you are missing is that the U.S. Air Force wasn't created until 1947 so using a Mosquito, or any other bomber to bomb Germany would have been in violation of the surrender signed by Germany in 1945.  :devil

I do believe the USAAF did use some mossies as photo recon birds (or some other specialized use) during the war. :aok

The fact of the matter is that the US, as well as Great Britain built and used heavy four engined bombers for the majority of the bombing sorties, and they won. Neither Germany nor Japan had a heavy long range bomber and they lost. Hmmm  :headscratch:
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Offline Scherf

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2010, 02:05:57 AM »
USAAF had assorted recon mossies, nightfighters and the occasional spy craft on strength.
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Lusche

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2010, 06:16:28 AM »
what makes you say this?

You would know if you had pondered this question

When did the Germans 'invent' the 163 and 262


The 262's development started in 1938, with maiden flight in 1942...
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2010, 07:31:58 AM »
The 262's development started in 1938, with maiden flight in 1942...

Yes I know that Lusche. It was a question for Avanti. ;);)
............................. ............................

videos of its condtruction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7cVvYdLeek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pacluxeWkCw&feature=related
............................. ...............

American Mosquitos

General Henry "Hap" Arnold, commander of the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF), witnessed a demonstration of the Mosquito on 20 April 1941 as a guest of Lord Beaverbrook. Geoffrey de Havilland JR was in prime form that day, screaming the machine low over the ground and performing sharp maneuvers with one engine feathered. Arnold was extremely impressed, and returned to the US with engineering drawings of the machine.

There matters more or less stood with the Yanks until late 1942, when a B.IV Mosquito was given to Colonel Elliot Roosevelt, the American President's son and commander of a USAAF reconnaissance squadron in North Africa, equipped with Lockheed F-4 Lightning reconnaissance aircraft. The B.IV was faster and had much longer range than the Lockheeds, and Elliot Roosevelt began to press for adopting the British machine.

In the meantime, Mosquitos were finally beginning to roll off the production lines at de Havilland Canada in the Toronto area, and in December 1942 Geoffrey de Havilland JR brought one of the first Canadian Mosquitos down to Washington DC. Hap Arnold ordered that airport traffic be held off for a half hour to allow de Havilland to put on an aerial demonstration over the city. Geoffrey De Havilland then left for California to perform more demonstrations. He went by train in order to see the country, and the Mosquito went separately. In Los Angeles he met with his cousin, actress Olivia de Havilland.

Hap Arnold now became very determined to get his hands on the Mossie, beginning with a offer to swap P-51 Mustangs for Mosquitos. The British turned him down. The Mosquito was increasingly seen as difficult to replace. Had Canada been producing Mosquitos in volume at the time, the Americans might have been able to get their hands on part of the production, but the Canadians were slow to ramp up, with only 90 Mosquitos built there in 1943. At least Arnold's persistent lobbying to get Mosquitos helped convince Bomber Command that they had something of value.

The Americans did manage to get their hands on a relatively small batch of Canadian aircraft. The US signed an agreement with the British government in October 1943 for 120 Canadian-built Mosquito bombers, but limited production meant that the US only got 5 B.VIIs and 35 B.XXs. They were converted to a reconnaissance configuration with US-built cameras, redesignated "F.8", and sent to the UK for service with the USAAF Eighth Air Force.

The F.8's camera suite was minimal and the single-stage Merlins really didn't provide the performance the USAAF wanted, and so the F.8s were eventually replaced by PR.XVIs. The Americans obtained over a hundred PR.XVIs, along with a handful of T.IIIs for conversion or continuance training.

American pilots converting from their Lockheed F-4 and F-5 Lightnings, which had "handed" propellers, had to be trained to deal with the Mosquito's tendency to roll against the rotation of its propellers on takeoff. There was a worse problem in that over-anxious fighter pilots tended to mistake Mosquitos for Messerschmitt Me-410s, which in fact did have a similar configuration, and so the USAAF gave their PR.XVIs red-painted tails as a recognition aid.

The majority of the Yank PR.XVIs were used in their intended photoreconnaissance role, but a good number of them were used for weather reconnaissance, and they were also modified for special tasks. Some were fitted with US-built "H2X" targeting radar, the American three-centimeter counterpart to the British ten-centimeter H2S, mounted in the nose radome. As American crews referred to H2X as "Mickey" for some forgotten reason, these were known as "Mickey Ships". Some USAAF Mosquitos were fitted out for dispensing chaff, and seven were fitted with communications gear to support Allied agents and resistance forces in Occupied Europe.

USAAF Mosquitos were also fitted to use the LORAN navigation system, the American answer to Gee, and as LORAN was something of an Allied standard later in the war it is plausible that some RAF Mosquitos had LORAN receivers as well.

Some sources also mention that the USAAF operated a squadron of NF.30s in Italy late in the war, but details are unclear. The USAAF returned all their Mosquitos at the end of the war, as part of the reverse Lend-Lease agreement.

http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avmoss2.html#m8

Offline Lusche

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2010, 07:40:29 AM »
Yes I know that Lusche. It was a question for Avanti. ;);)


I know. You misread me - that remark was directed at Avanti too, I was just pointing him at your question again  ("You would know if you had pondered this question:") :)
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: What if the US air force used mosquito bombers to bomb germany instead?
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2010, 08:29:23 AM »
I know. You misread me - that remark was directed at Avanti too, I was just pointing him at your question again  ("You would know if you had pondered this question:") :)

 ;) :cheers: