Yet Another Horde Thread

[RufusLeaking]

I have noticed the same MA change in behavior of late. 
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Flew for 2 hours yesterday morning in LW orange with 275 people in the arena and got 1 kill. Single planes ran. People only engaged if they had 2 or three squaddies with them.
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The only real solution is for the squads to exersise a little restraint.

I perceive the same change in the MA.  Good, suspenseful fights are fewer and farther between.  I have been going to the AvA, where a horde is three people, and one can change sides without a timer.

Though squads may be the nucleus of a few hordes, I don’t think the grouping can be that easily controlled.  Once they are rolling, they are like a thunderstorm cell.  It sucks everything in until it expends all its energy. 

But more seriously: Since the dar range was pulled back to the old value, I'm quite fine as a lone wolf again.

Yes, the new towns do require more effort which requires a somewhat greater team effort - but that's just one side of the medal. It also makes sneaking or overrunning large areas at off-peak times more difficult, even an outnumbered defender has now more time to react.

My opinion is that the changes to the town (and field layouts) have had a larger impact on player behavior than the changes to the radar.

It is up to the leader of these hordes to make the missions multi pronged attacks so that the few "defending" or looking for a fight have half a chance at some fun.

The result is that the front line becomes more spread, fields are only horde attacked when there are two enemy fields virtually equidistant from them. (triangulated attack).
When mission planners / generals are able to opperate more complex missions from multiple airfields then probably they deserve any reward going.

Complex missions would be great.  But, I do not believe they will ever be common in the main arenas.  It is not reasonable to expect people to work so much while they are playing.  People would have to be briefed, be reliable, and be able to commit to a certain amount of time.  Plus, there are too many chiefs and not enough warriors.  Personally, I think a clever plan would be fun occasionally.

There is always FSO for the complex mission fans.

[sky25]

Lets see, several months ago the complaint was the constant NOE missions ruining game play. Aces High changed the radar settings.  Now some are complaining that the mega hordes are ruining game play, so they want something done about this..

I was part of an  attack on  a V-base #41 I think in orange, and we got our bellybutton handed to us by the Knights. We had maybe 50 tanks rolling on that base. They defended that base with everything they had and turned away the attack. It turned out to be a very fun fight.. Maybe you should join the dueling arena if you do not want to find yourself defending against large numbers.. I have been part of  large missions, and have defended against them . Either way, they are always good fights in my own humble opinion.. I play with the Bishops, but have seen just as many Knight and Rook hordes as well..

A poster made the comment that many who fly in squads are without skill.. I do not know what game he is playing but from what I see most of the best players in the game are all in squads...The teamwork, planning, and friendships created while playing with a squad are what make the game enjoyable to me... I learned more with a squad then I ever learned when playing by myself..

Instead of complaining about hordes, you should figure out a way to combat against them...

I think many of the guys complaining are upset because they cant  picktard all of the noobs and bank their easy kills for high scores every month. With more squads, they actually have to engage more than one, and risk hurting that most important kill/death ratio.

[sky25]

The horde are a result of people playing with out skill. They need the "safety in numbers". The horde won't disappear untill people learn to fight their way out of a wet paper bag. The best way to reach this end is by having these "mega squads" train their people. I know, most will say they do have training, and some of them even do   but until they train and then use them as trained groups they will have hordes.

Right now they use 30+ people to hit a base, and sometime they get it, sometimes not. Even if they "train" like they say they do, they run missions as a horde because they either don't trust the training they have done, or they have to admit that they really havn't trained at all. If they were a trained group they could take two bases at the same time with that many. Hitting 2 bases at the same time would force the enemy to split their defense making their attack work even better.

Until these "mega squads" can be honest with themselves and truly train, and use those trained elements as attack groups we will have skillless hordes counting on numbers to get done what skill could get done on a wider scale.

Sorry Fugitive, but your comments are clearly based on your own biased opinion and hold no merit. If Aces High was meant to be what you think it should be, then why did they set up the game to have squads of 30 people? Are you saying that they should reduce the roster to a lower number? If they did this, All that would happen is squads would make alliances and continue grouping together.  Some of the best ranked players in the game are in the mega squads that you talk about. Are you saying that they are without skill?  If they want to up 30 guys on a mission to take a base or die trying, what business is it of anyone to say they cant? If they are having a good time, I say go for it! So what your saying Fugitive is that you have never flown in a mission of more than just a few people. You should learn to defend against them...

[Lusche]

Some of the best ranked players in the game are in the mega squads that you talk about. Are you saying that they are without skill? 

I would recommend leaving the ranking stuff out of this topic. Rank in AH is to a large degree a result of having a certain style of play.

[WMLute]

Sorry Fugitive, but your comments are clearly based on your own biased opinion and hold no merit. If Aces High was meant to be what you think it should be, then why did they set up the game to have squads of 30 people? Are you saying that they should reduce the roster to a lower number? If they did this, All that would happen is squads would make alliances and continue grouping together.  Some of the best ranked players in the game are in the mega squads that you talk about. Are you saying that they are without skill?  If they want to up 30 guys on a mission to take a base or die trying, what business is it of anyone to say they cant? If they are having a good time, I say go for it! So what your saying Fugitive is that you have never flown in a mission of more than just a few people. You should learn to defend against them...

Actually he was pretty much right.

The players that frequent large hoards generally suck worse than the average player does.  It totally makes sense if you think it through.  Who fights more?  The guy in a 20-5 or a 5 on 5.  

By flying with a hoard you limit not only the frequency but TYPE of fight you generally have.

The player the seeks our even odds, or even slightly outnumbered, will have a many more opportunities to have not only have more fights, but different styles of fights.  They learn more because of this.

So yes, 'always flying in a pack' type players are generally sub-par skill wise.  The nature of the hoard makes it so.


(edit: I might add that low rank is not by any means an indication of skill)

[The Fugitive]

Lets see, several months ago the complaint was the constant NOE missions ruining game play. Aces High changed the radar settings to combat this. Now some are complaining that the mega hordes are ruining game play, so they want something done about this..

I was part of an  attack on  a V-base #41 I think in orange, and we got our bellybutton handed to us by the Knights. We had maybe 50 tanks rolling on that base. They defended that base with everything they had and turned away the attack. It turned out to be a very fun fight.. Maybe you should join the dueling arena if you do not want to find yourself defending against large numbers.. I have been part of  large missions, and have defended against them . Either way, they are always good fights in my own humble opinion.. I play with the Bishops, but have seen just as many Knight and Rook hordes as well..

A poster made the comment that many who fly in squads are without skill.. I do not know what game he is playing but from what I see most of the best players in the game are all in squads...The teamwork, planning, and friendships created while playing with a squad are what make the game enjoyable to me... I learned more with a squad then I ever learned when playing by myself..

Instead of complaining about hordes, you should figure out a way to combat against them...

I don't know if you were referring to my post way back one page 1, but this is the closes I came to saying "those in a squad have no skill"....

The horde are a result of people playing with out skill. They need the "safety in numbers". The horde won't disappear untill people learn to fight their way out of a wet paper bag. The best way to reach this end is by having these "mega squads" train their people. I know, most will say they do have training, and some of them even do   but until they train and then use them as trained groups they will have hordes.

I was the CO of the 444th Air Mafia for years, both in Air Warrior, and here in Aces High. We were Bish (surprise!) and use to take small air fields in minutes, as well as work a number of bases at once. At one point we even had 3 wings. So yes I understand about "squads", as well as big squads. I understand how to run missions as well as using the mission planners (I had over 50 saved missions at one point). I understand about grabbing bases as well as porking refineries, and the ever exciting resupply missions of both bases and factories. We did it all, except I don't think you could EVER call us a horde!

Our main wing (10-12 guys on an average squad night) was used as our main attack wing. A goon or two, a couple light fighters for cover the rest in some type of hvy. Second wing was a prep-squad. They would "prep" a base or two or three as either diversions or for clearing ack and GVs. 3rd wing had three guys in and they were the porkers. They would pork fuel and ammo all along the front we were working.

These guys trained at this. I could count on 75-80% accuracy in the bombing. I knew how many guys I needed to drop what I wanted at any base. We had maps set up so that our buffs could come in from 3 different directions and flatten a town in one pass. We had ack run maps so that 4 guys could each make a single pass and deack a field. Taking two bases at once was always given a go just to see if we could do it. Co-ordinating the timings and waypoints so that the GVs and the buffs and the fighters all set off the base flash at the same time was as much fun as actually winning the base.

You just don't see that kind of play anymore, why? because player today are either too worried about their score, or just don't have any skill. Skill is something that can be taught, but a very large percentage of the people playing today won't bother to get better because all they care about is winning the map and the easiest way to do that is to roll bases with large numbers striking only where the enemy is not. Why fight for it? because when it comes down to a fight that can't win. Hec k 75% of the people playing today could find the trainers site with a link let alone know half of whats on there.

The game is turning more and more into an arcade game and everyone has unlimited quarters. you don't need any skill or training, just get a few more friends as cannon fodder in your mega-squad. One of you is bound to get through with the troops  

[sky25]

I don't know if you were referring to my post way back one page 1, but this is the closes I came to saying "those in a squad have no skill"....

I was the CO of the 444th Air Mafia for years, both in Air Warrior, and here in Aces High. We were Bish (surprise!) and use to take small air fields in minutes, as well as work a number of bases at once. At one point we even had 3 wings. So yes I understand about "squads", as well as big squads. I understand how to run missions as well as using the mission planners (I had over 50 saved missions at one point). I understand about grabbing bases as well as porking refineries, and the ever exciting resupply missions of both bases and factories. We did it all, except I don't think you could EVER call us a horde!

Our main wing (10-12 guys on an average squad night) was used as our main attack wing. A goon or two, a couple light fighters for cover the rest in some type of hvy. Second wing was a prep-squad. They would "prep" a base or two or three as either diversions or for clearing ack and GVs. 3rd wing had three guys in and they were the porkers. They would pork fuel and ammo all along the front we were working.

These guys trained at this. I could count on 75-80% accuracy in the bombing. I knew how many guys I needed to drop what I wanted at any base. We had maps set up so that our buffs could come in from 3 different directions and flatten a town in one pass. We had ack run maps so that 4 guys could each make a single pass and deack a field. Taking two bases at once was always given a go just to see if we could do it. Co-ordinating the timings and waypoints so that the GVs and the buffs and the fighters all set off the base flash at the same time was as much fun as actually winning the base.

You just don't see that kind of play anymore, why? because player today are either too worried about their score, or just don't have any skill. Skill is something that can be taught, but a very large percentage of the people playing today won't bother to get better because all they care about is winning the map and the easiest way to do that is to roll bases with large numbers striking only where the enemy is not. Why fight for it? because when it comes down to a fight that can't win. Hec k 75% of the people playing today could find the trainers site with a link let alone know half of whats on there.

The game is turning more and more into an arcade game and everyone has unlimited quarters. you don't need any skill or training, just get a few more friends as cannon fodder in your mega-squad. One of you is bound to get through with the troops  

I agree with the part about score not really being a true indicator of skill. Maybe I used that comparison badly.. I think Aces High contributed to this issue in a good way when they changed the entire layout of the game a few months ago.. Dont get me wrong. I love the new changes... Before,  I alone could easily go into a gv base, take out the three hangers and couple ack guns, spawn out and drive back with a goon to take the base. This is alot harder to do now... Before they complained about the tool shedders taking all of the undefended bases.

Now players have conformed to the changes, and realize that taking a defended base takes more than just a few players.. I am mainly speaking of towns.. Everyone has to admit that it is much harder to take a town now than it was before the new version came out.. We took bases over the weekend with only about 10-12 guys. I wouldn't consider that a horde. These mega missions are something that occurs in every country. Not just Bish. I say that the receiving end of them should just get together and defend against them...

[sky25]

Actually he was pretty much right.

The players that frequent large hoards generally suck worse than the average player does.  It totally makes sense if you think it through.  Who fights more?  The guy in a 20-5 or a 5 on 5.  

By flying with a hoard you limit not only the frequency but TYPE of fight you generally have.

The player the seeks our even odds, or even slightly outnumbered, will have a many more opportunities to have not only have more fights, but different styles of fights.  They learn more because of this.

So yes, 'always flying in a pack' type players are generally sub-par skill wise.  The nature of the hoard makes it so.


(edit: I might add that low rank is not by any means an indication of skill)

Did fighter planes in WWII fly alone on a regular bases? Maybe on a few occasions, but mostly they flew in groups for better defense and offense.. Even in a game it is human nature to form up in packs. I think Sir that this is and will always be a part of the game...

[oTRALFZo]

Did fighter planes in WWII fly alone on a regular bases? Maybe on a few occasions, but mostly they flew in groups for better defense and offense.. Even in a game it is human nature to form up in packs. I think Sir that this is and will always be a part of the game...

I swear, if hear another "they did XXX in ww2". Ill loose it.

I know we will be faced with the same ol bs years down the road. Those generals are a dime a dozen and where one leaves, 2 or 3 take their place.

We tend to forget that public forums are meant to show someone's view on a subject. Personally, I hate the NOE hordes. By no means am I telling you to play a certain way or my way is the best way. Its just how I feeel

[The Fugitive]

I swear, if hear another "they did XXX in ww2". Ill loose it.

I know we will be faced with the same ol bs years down the road. Those generals are a dime a dozen and where one leaves, 2 or 3 take their place.

We tend to forget that public forums are meant to show someone's view on a subject. Personally, I hate the NOE hordes. By no means am I telling you to play a certain way or my way is the best way. Its just how I feeel

Agreed!! especially with the bolded section.

I would like to see fights. I'm tired of logging in and see a big darbar. Up from a near-by base only to get there AFTER the horde has taken the base and disappeared to some other undefended area of the map.

Sure you ANYBODY can take a base with 30-50 players. Show me some skill, show me some balls, show me some tactics, take three bases at the same time with those numbers. Me and the other guys might stop you at one, but I don't think we'll stop you at all three. So everyone wins, you get your bases, and some of us have fun defending.

After all, it is a game and we are all suppose to be having fun.

[Guppy35]

Did fighter planes in WWII fly alone on a regular bases? Maybe on a few occasions, but mostly they flew in groups for better defense and offense.. Even in a game it is human nature to form up in packs. I think Sir that this is and will always be a part of the game...

Keep in mind death was real in WW2 so there was a bit more motivation to stick with your crowd.  Since death isn't real here, hiding in a horde is just silly.    As soon as AH implements the one death and you are gone subscription, I'll buy into the horde mentality.

[sky25]

Keep in mind death was real in WW2 so there was a bit more motivation to stick with your crowd.  Since death isn't real here, hiding in a horde is just silly.    As soon as AH implements the one death and you are gone subscription, I'll buy into the horde mentality.

I never said that I was for or against the horde. I basically said that it is human nature for people in any situation to group together and form units. We can say that this is not fair, right, or useful but it is the way it is. We just have to play the way we enjoy the game and not worry about what the large squads are doing... The WWII comparison was used not because this is a WWII simulation game. It was used only because that was the case with the replica planes used in the game.


One thing is very clear about the game. It is addicting and alot of fun to play. And no matter what changes happen to it in the future, there will always be some who do not like it... Read my past comments about the radar changes. I hated that when they did it...The height wasn't really a big deal. It was the overlapping rings.. I recall that many of the people who loved the changes were speaking out against them a month later..

[bmwgs]

I swear, if hear another "they did XXX in ww2". Ill loose it.

I don't know why you all get so tired of hearing the above statement.  Equally is seen, "I remember back in AW........".  

I'm ready for HiTech to step in, please do something about the hoards (or however you want to spell it), ho-ing, picking, ramming, not being able to find a fight, caps, eny, (add your own).    

Please HiTech, just dump the game and start all over.  I think you should go back to the beginning because all the years you, your staff, and volunteers have spent creating this game is all crap now.  Do something before your game collapses, all the players quit, your employees are laid off, and you go bankrupt.

Jeeeeeeeeez it never ends.

Soon to be the last player in the game.

Fred

[oTRALFZo]

I swear, if hear another "they did XXX in ww2". Ill loose it.

I don't know why you all get so tired of hearing the above statement.  

Fred

You do notice that people use that statement only when it seems convenient to them at that particular time. Equally as ignorant to say "well they do it to us, so its OK to do it back".

People forget sportsmanship. Competing as hard as you can and having respect in your opponent while having high standards for integrity for the sport (or in this case a cartoon video game).

Only you are responsible for your own actions. If your known to only pick, HO, gang, vulch or join 20+ NOE missions, it will show then thats the reputation you are going to get. The same way you think of those guys that do that kind of stuff is the same way they are going to think of you if you participate in it.

Play the game the way you want. Its what your going to do anyway. But I as well as others can certainly have an opinion on how we feel about it

[1Boner]

After all, it is a game and we are all suppose to be having fun.

They ARE having fun.

Its what THEY like to do.

I've never understood guys who complained about other guys taking "undefended" bases.

If you're no where near the base that is being taken and are apparently too busy doing other things to take the time to defend it, how could it possibly affect your game play.