indestructible Tiger

[Lusche]

I gave up trying to kill tigers in a gv. Now I just track them with some HE and let the planes deal with it while keeping the Tiger from getting resupplied. 

In AH GV's kill much more Tigers than planes. Last tour, 439 planes were credited with a Tiger kill. But 1261 Tigers were killed by other vehicles, the most successful being the M4A3(76)w (374 kills).

Get close and/or flank him. Don't engage him frontal at long ranges. Don't just sit there and slug it out, MOVE! Tiger has a slow turret and is particularly bad at tracking multiple close enemies. At closer ranges, the M4(76) is a particular nasty opponent for the Tiger due to the higher rate of fire.

[321BAR]

In AH GV's kill much more Tigers than planes. Last tour, 439 planes were credited with a Tiger kill. But 1261 Tigers were killed by other vehicles, the most successful being the M4A3(76)w (374 kills).

Get close and/or flank him. Don't engage him frontal at long ranges. Don't just sit there and slug it out, MOVE! Tiger has a slow turret and is particularly bad at tracking multiple close enemies. At closer ranges, the M4(76) is a particular nasty opponent for the Tiger due to the higher rate of fire.

proud to say that in my tiger runs of the last 5 tours only 2 deaths were by tank for me (approx 10-15 deaths)

[kvuo75]

In AH GV's kill much more Tigers than planes. Last tour, 439 planes were credited with a Tiger kill. But 1261 Tigers were killed by other vehicles, the most successful being the M4A3(76)w (374 kills).

Get close and/or flank him. Don't engage him frontal at long ranges. Don't just sit there and slug it out, MOVE! Tiger has a slow turret and is particularly bad at tracking multiple close enemies. At closer ranges, the M4(76) is a particular nasty opponent for the Tiger due to the higher rate of fire.

snail.. that surprises me that the m4/76 is now the main tiger killer.. does anyone even bother with the firefly anymore? have you compared usage before/after the new m4's came out?

[Lusche]

snail.. that surprises me that the m4/76 is now the main tiger killer.. does anyone even bother with the firefly anymore? have you compared usage before/after the new m4's came out?

To me it's hardly surprising. The M4(76) is the best overall tank platform we currently have, which is mainly due to having a superior rate of fire compared to other tanks. Few players are one-shot killers at typical. AH engagement ranges, so the M4(76) has a big advantage vs the old "standard" tank, the Panzer IV (And of course against all other tanks, too). And because it's the most numerous tank, it's also the main Tiger killer.

Overall tank usage in current tour:


The decline of Firefly usage has (in my opinion) two main reasons: First the attractiveness of the 1-perk M4(76), but mainly the correction of a armor calculation error at certain angles, which made the Tiger very susceptible to turret hits. Now that several armor glitches have been corrected, the Tiger has won some appeal again. Note that the Tiger overall K/D went up significantly.

[Rich46yo]

I doubt there was one "poorly made" Tiger in the war. If anything the thing was overengineered and even when resources were getting thinned the very best nickle/steel plate was reserved for it. If anything was chisled it was the panthers, whose steel couldnt compare. And there was a lot of it on the Tiger protecting the crew from blast. Anywheres from 120mm to 80mm, which is why I try and poke holes thru the 25mm sections on top.

So when I hear about Tiger toughness from bombs I think more good modeling then anything else. Its not all that easy to drop a bomb right on top of a tank and near misses that kill other tanks shouldnt automatically kill a Tiger.

[321BAR]

I doubt there was one "poorly made" Tiger in the war. If anything the thing was overengineered and even when resources were getting thinned the very best nickle/steel plate was reserved for it. If anything was chisled it was the panthers, whose steel couldnt compare. And there was a lot of it on the Tiger protecting the crew from blast. Anywheres from 120mm to 80mm, which is why I try and poke holes thru the 25mm sections on top.

So when I hear about Tiger toughness from bombs I think more good modeling then anything else. Its not all that easy to drop a bomb right on top of a tank and near misses that kill other tanks shouldnt automatically kill a Tiger.

read up on what happened during the war. the tiger wasnt over-engineered. and the panther was. the panther's overlapping track wheels and new transmission were both extremely fragile. the tiger actually could easily have been poorly made. Later tigers broke down alot due to hastening their construction and sabotage due to forced labor...

[Rich46yo]

read up on what happened during the war. the tiger wasnt over-engineered. and the panther was. the panther's overlapping track wheels and new transmission were both extremely fragile. the tiger actually could easily have been poorly made. Later tigers broke down alot due to hastening their construction and sabotage due to forced labor...

I love it. Tell somebody they are wrong, tell them to "read up", and then back up a silly opinion with nothing.

I actually typed up a long post with supporting material linked and then figured why bother? Nobody was talking about the Panther and as for the rest of your post? Read up!

[FLOTSOM]

"I actually typed up a long post with supporting material linked and then figured why bother? Nobody was talking about the Panther..."

not picking a side here guys,

Rich i have done the same thing!! written an entire brick wall of uncontestable and fully linked and supported text, then upon review decided that nobdy would bother to read it and erased it.

always wind up kicking myself in the arse over it right after the next guy makes a post that is completely contradictory and without any foundation!!!

[Rich46yo]

not picking a side here guys,

Rich i have done the same thing!! written an entire brick wall of uncontestable and fully linked and supported text, then upon review decided that nobdy would bother to read it and erased it.

always wind up kicking myself in the arse over it right after the next guy makes a post that is completely contradictory and without any foundation!!!

Well theres that, plus the fact one feels silly taking 20 mins out of your day to back up a position your taking with a 14yo.

[FLOTSOM]

Well theres that, plus the fact one feels silly taking 20 mins out of your day to back up a position your taking with a 14yo.

i wish i could remember the thread or the name of the kid but there was a conversation a year or so back about a particular bomber and the smartest guy in the group with all the research was actually 14 or 16. he made us all look dumb! our final answer to him as a group was that he seriously needed to go find a girlfriend!!!

how ya been Rich? all golden on the home front?

[Rich46yo]

i wish i could remember the thread or the name of the kid but there was a conversation a year or so back about a particular bomber and the smartest guy in the group with all the research was actually 14 or 16. he made us all look dumb! our final answer to him as a group was that he seriously needed to go find a girlfriend!!!

how ya been Rich? all golden on the home front?

Good to seeya Floats. Alls good and you?

Regarding Tigers, and I already mentioned how I easily pop thru them with an IL2 from the top, here is the way their armor is laid out. The Red is 80mm or thicker, and there is very little 80mm on Tigers, the red being mostly 100mm , the yellow is 50 to 80mm, the grey is 26mm to 50mm, and the blue is 25mm or less. You see how the Tiger is situated to withstand bomb blasts anywheres near and how its fairly easy to poke thru the weak top sections with a plane cannon. Conversely you drop a bomb right on top of a Tiger and its dead. This thread isn't about the IL2 but that 37mm cannon on its rated for 50mm from 200 meters shooting point blank with no angle.


Tigers had problems with their advance drive and power systems but they were also legendary for allowing their crews to at least survive and fight again. I think the really amazing thing about them was the quality of the steel the Germans managed to keep production going so late into the war for. With all the stress on their Industry, and all the competition for good steel throughout their economy, they kept fabulous steel plate production going for their Tigers. In comparison the plate for the Panthers was of far lesser quality. An amazing machine, and amazing design. An amazing tank.

Even today when a Tiger is spotted in a computer game many players will drop what they are doing to go hunt it. So great is the aura still. I'm going to include drawings of our other tanks and their armor thickness and locations. Its not exact but a good aid, even if its mostly for guys like me who hunt them in the air. Heres the most survivable tank we have the T-34/85 - - -

[uptown]

Last nite i watched an A20 drop 4 500lbers right on top of a Tiger, not once but twice, and the Tiger just sat there. Surely that can't be right. The same amount of ords would have sunk a cruiser twice over. I would think that in the real world just 1 500lber could kill a Tiger tank. All I can say is thank God we don't have the King Tiger as it would take a formation of B17s to kill one.

[Rich46yo]

Yesterday I saw a group of Lanc-stuka B-17s drop lots of 500lb's on a T-34/5. Or did I? After the smoke cleared I saw the bomb crater's next to the tank, even tho I saw the smoke engulf the tank. So far Tigers have been killed 1696 times in the MA this tour. While other tanks and/or guns/IL2s killed most of them 449 have been killed by bomb laden Jabos. So clearly somebody is dropping bombs on them. 30 by A-20s, 24 by DHogs, 3 by Hell kits, 11 by JU-s, 21 by Lancs, 17 by P-38Ls, 39 by Jugs....ect.

Clearly some bombs are working and no doubt they are the ones actually dropped on the tank. And no disrespect but there are very few Jabo sticks who consistently are able to drop with that kind of precision. Tomcat is one of them and he's only killed one Tiger this tour, like me, and like me it was probably the only Tiger he's seen this tour. Which brings us to another dynamic at work. You just dont see Tigers much when Jabos and IL2s are around. Guys only upp them for tank on tank battles, and even then mostly on defense when they can tower them easily. So far this tour Tiger tanks have accounted for a combined 9340 k/Ds, where'as the T-34/85 has accounted for 24,092, the P-4 27,533, Sherm/76 65,973. You get the picture. Another dynamic at work is once a Tiger is spotted and called out its like feeding time at the Lion cage. Guys hurry, fly thru each other, stab their sisters in the back just to steal the Tiger from her. Excited bombers make mistakes and inflate their accuracy tales. Boy just hearing and reading the comms, some of these guys are never responsible for anything. Its always a game bug or someone else's fault for everything.

So I'll be happy to change my opinion once film is shown. Until then however I maintain this is the toughest tank in our world, one made from remarkable steel alloy plate. And if you want to kill it with bombs then you'd better be spot on.

[R 105]

I always look forward to reading Lusche's posts. He put time and effort in them and he is always correct because he looks things up. Thank you for your time and hard work in the research you do.

 I to find I almost never use any other tank except the new M4/76 Sherman. The rate of fire and the fast turret is its strong point. The gun will kill any other tank with ease. However if I am faced with fighter bombers the Tiger is still the most bomb resistant tank in the game. Just put out a pile of supplies first.

[321BAR]

I love it. Tell somebody they are wrong, tell them to "read up", and then back up a silly opinion with nothing.

I actually typed up a long post with supporting material linked and then figured why bother? Nobody was talking about the Panther and as for the rest of your post? Read up!

rich chill out man. i wasnt flaming you. im one of few people on these boards that do not flame unless flamed. ive been through this conversation before and also in a few threads about the tiger AND the panther. just because i dont back it up doesnt mean i havent before or have had other people correct me. But i am 100% accurate with this statement and all i said was to go google a few good sources about the tiger's history and the panther's transmission and it will tell you what i just stated. so stop freaking because i didnt show you where the info is. you can find it yourself, i barely have the time to during the week to even be on the BBS let alone look for sources...