Vertical and Horizontal Convergence settings

[Vinkman]

I'd like to see the convergence setting broken up into two components. Vertical and horizontal.

Currently they have to be set to the same value.

 

[waystin2]

No flame here Vink...  Can I ask what purpose this would serve?

[Vinkman]

No flame here Vink...  Can I ask what purpose this would serve?

Didn't take it as a flame, but I was affraid that my logic would be mocked. So I tried the clever ploy of not describing my logic, in the hopes that readers would wonder what they could use it for and assume I was as clever as them. 

But you called my bluff so here it is   


I was thinking about it while flying the FW-190 A8 the other day. I think the 30mm are inboard on the wings, and the 20mm are further out. The .50 are in the cowl. The 30mm don't need to converge because one round will do it so I'd rather have the wider horizontal pattern. But I don't like the vertical offset when lining up behind a bandit at 400yds with Conv set at 650 and throwing shells over his plane. From dead astern I'd rather compensate for the drop myself and get used to having every plane set at 400 so I'm not trying to remember if I need to shoot high or low in each different plane.

Just wanted to try different combos to see if I could further optimize.

hope that makes some sense.

[guncrasher]

I could use it when I shoot at the planes while flying sideways.


Semp

[JHerne]

So what you're saying is the ability to adjust for trajectory drop in addition to convergence? This could allow you to match not only convergence, but allow weapons with a slower velocity to pass through the same point in space as those with flatter trajectories.

That's not a bad idea. I have an MG151 mount from a 190 and it has elevation adjustments on it....

Anything that'll improve my gunnery, why not?

+1

[bustr]

Convergence is the crossed stream point of impact at a given range model used in the game. Harmonization is being able to adjust the spread at the convergence range POI to create a custom area impact pattern other than is to be expected by the rounds passing through the range=X convergence.

Harmonization would allow you to have all 6-.50cal on the P51D shoot a POI of 250 yards exactly parallel to each other or some combination of distances and angle spreads. In our current convergence model all 6-.50cal are required to converge to 250 yards and crossing streams at that point. We have a limited harmonics adjustment in that we can set each pair of the 6 guns to different convergence distances.

I remember reading somewhere that the real problem most pilots had in WW2 with their gunnery was being able to shoot lead and deflection as opposed to the most common shooting from a hidden 6 position. When the K14 and GGS sights started being used near the end of the war they compensated for many pilots inablitly to visualy calculate lead and deflection. The British nicknamed it the "Ace Maker" because of the increase in hit percentage.

I'll go out on a limb with this but, gunnery in this game has the same problems with players real ability to calculate instantaious lead and deflection as the majority of pilots had in WW2.

[SmokinLoon]

Im not so sure this was how any air force in WWII did things.  I'm under the impression that convergence was set to where the pilot was going to commence firing regardless of what caliber the weapons were on the aircraft.

[JunkyII]

Im not so sure this was how any air force in WWII did things.  I'm under the impression that convergence was set to where the pilot was going to commence firing regardless of what caliber the weapons were on the aircraft.

Im pretty sure your right.....Ive always thought that where I set my convergence at thats where Im going to get the most kills at.....300-350ish 250 for tators

[Krusty]

In our current convergence model all 6-.50cal are required to converge to 250 yards and crossing streams at that point.

Only in a theoretical sense... The guns themselves have a spray, they also sway the wing, the vibrations throw off every successive round, and a short burst from 1 gun can leave a wide circle on a shooting target.

There is no purpose to separate these 2 components in setting your guns.

You set the guns to land at the center of the gunsight. Period. You set them up and what's the point of the gunsight? Keep in mind the "arc" on most of these guns is very minimal, and can only be adjusted so much. It's not like car headlights that you just turn then retighten. The entire gun positioned in the wing, the nose, or the engine, has to be adjusted.

Changing vertical and horizontal to game the game so that you get "higher" deflection shots is just lame-as-heck. That's the ONLY purpose this could have. If you can't make shots like that already, don't set up those shots. Fly until you have a shot you can take THEN kill your target. Don't request silly things that defy common sense and common practice (or, should I request hand guns in the cockpit so that I can shoot out my window sideways to pilot wound another player while in a turn fight? You see how silly these requests can be?)

[Dichotomy]

What I know about what they could and couldn't do to the guns wouldn't fill a thimble but I'm wondering if they could raise / lower the trajectory for the individual weapons?

Educate me please.

[guncrasher]

Out of curiosity here did pilots in ww2 set their convergence as high as 650? I read somewhere Japanese pilots would shoot at 100 or less above that was considered. Waste of ammo not sure about German/American.



Semp

[Krusty]

300 yards was considered almost out of range most of the time.

Many BOB pilots got in to 100 yards or less (.303s, remember?) and some even after Hispanos became the norm.

Many pilots got point blank and fired less shots (Marseille, for example), being close enough to know their prey was disabled.

Close was the norm in WW2. That's why in AH1 it was rather ridiculous to have 1.2k kills as the normal routine. I always hated that about AH1, and loved when gunnery was updated in AH2.

[guncrasher]

That's what I thought. At 600 a plane would be really hard to hit due to it would basically be a dot.  Oh well, it's a game .


Semp

[RTHolmes]

+1 (maybe as an advanced setting)

would be good to be able to use the historical harmonisation.

Im not so sure this was how any air force in WWII did things.

USAAF certainly did - it was standard for the 6 or 8 .50 installations in ponies and jugs.


edit: someone recently posted some diags illustrating this from AAF manual 200-1, cant find the topic tho.

[Ghosth]

Your trying to push that cannon convergence too far. Pull that convergence back to 300 and your "problems" with wanting to change vertical convergence disappear.

Cannon convergence especially should never be out more than 350 with the possible exception of the iL2 and 37mm.

As much as I dislike doing this on a regular basis I have to agree with Krusty.

Trying to get the convergence "tweaked" 'so you can play some specific tricks with the cannons is just not going to happen around here from what i've seen.