Roll Rate

[dev41]

As a relatively new player in the game (almost a year) I have read a lot on the boards about turn speed, ACM, climb rate, etc. I would be curious to discover what some of the more experienced players and otherwise informed professionals have to say about roll rate. Specifically how can roll rate be used effectively. What is it's full potential and advantages. In particular I am curious about the FW models and how I can use the roll rate of these models better than I currently manage. However, although I am interested in the FW's I am open to any other information on roll rate that might be helpful to know and understand as well.

Thanks in advance!

Ubben

[Infidelz]

by rolling faster than the other aircraft you can more quickly get out of plane with the pursuer, which may help you cause an overshoot or allow you to escape.

Infidelz

[Ack-Ack]

You can also use rolls to help tighten a turn.  If you're in a plane that has an excellent roll rate, you can use that to help "roll inside" of the turn of a better turning plane.

ack-ack

[Plazus]

Both of the above posts are spot on. Essentially with roll rate (and particularly with the 190), you want to use the rate of roll by throwing your enemy out of synch and either forcing the over shoot, turning to escape, or cutting inside your opponent for that quick deflection shot. I like using good roll rate to my advantage because it helps me stay outside of my opponents gun sight.

In many debates with ACM, you will see a lot people talk about turn rate, climb, and acceleration. Roll rate is often one of the least talked about, and least appreciated in terms of it's value in the fight. In a fight, I would prefer an aircraft that has a better rate of roll than rate of turn.

[Blooz]

Also to add to it the FW's snappy rate of roll gets you a quick change of direction even at higher speeds. At speeds over 400mph where other planes are getting pretty sluggish to roll the FW's maintain a good roll rate.

[Jack2]

The roll rate of the F4U is also excellent.

[jdbecks]

good roll rates are good for rolling scissors etc, also great for quick direction change when setting up for a pass, I like to use it to try and misslead the other plane and then roll back last minute.

[pervert]

good roll rates are good for flat scissors etc, also great for quick direction change when setting up for a pass, I like to use it to try and misslead the other plane and then roll back last minute.

fixed 

Using flat scissors in a 190 for me is a last ditch desperation move when you have lost all your E, it usually means you've screwed up earlier down the line and blew all your E, worse still flat scissoring in a 190 requires E and preforming a flat scissor in 190s burns it very quickly leaving you with no E to manevour and a sitting duck for maybe the next 30 seconds as you rebuild that E by that time even the worst shot in the game will make swiss cheese of you before your can get out of guns range.

 The worst position to be in a 190 is with someone dead on your 6 in pure pursuit at near to co E. This is what I use although I prefare having the option of turning in to face him.

http://www.4shared.com/file/0T3JDe2b/fastbarrel.html

[Messiah]

do a barrel roll

[pervert]

do a barrel roll

Pretty much   but you use mostly the rate of roll to make the barrel instead of elevators + roll as you would in say a K4. If you try and barrel roll a Dora the way you would the 109 it will bleed of E to quickly and get 'stuck' without enough airspeed to complete the manevour.

[dev41]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback it has been quite helpful. Apparently, as with most things in this game, practise and experience will be the keys to success in learning how to use the rate of roll effectively. Where I get into trouble right now is when I do exactly what pervert is talking about. I find myself in bad situations because I have gotten low and slow with cons on my six. I have tried barrel rolling, but I have doing it the same way I do in the K-4 or G-14. My success has been extremely limited and I usually end up dead. So perhaps by not using the elevators as much I will have more success, but I think the key is to not end up in that situation in the first place. Learning to use the FW aircraft in tight situations effectively will take some time and lots of practise, I think.

Thanks again, and I am interested in any additional thoughts people might have on this topic.

[Ardy123]

Also, roll rates are great for doing displacement turns to counter a 'better' turning plane while keeping some e. Also, when in a rolling scissors, you can use the quick roll rate to get a snap shot on the other guy by as hes diving down on your 3 or 9 roll into that direction until he falls below your alt, then roll the other direction and pull back on the stick a little and you will see them pull up in front of your gun sites.

[Ruah]

roll rate is hard to use, you need good SA and moe importantly a very good idea of the E state of your opponent.  In th case of the FW190, the latter is really really important, since timing (like a lot of things) is key.  If you start rolling too early, you are just spinning aound infront of the con while he waits for you to lose all your E.  Too late and well. . . roll all the way to the ground.

The thing about the scissor is to understand what you are trying to accomplish in the maneuver.  I think this is true with most things, but the scissor is not a pure defensive move, its a cheeky way to reverse a deadly situation into a kill for you, and the more agressive and confident (and gas happy) your oppenent, the easier it is to get him.  Essentially, you are creating a situation where the last 5 seconds of the opponents life is 'oh no. . .' which is satisfying.  I think its a simmilar kind of satisfaction 109 pilots get when they do that magical roap, twist, kill move.

there are a couple of good pdf guides to how to execute a proper  scissors, explaining the different kinds (vertical scissors up/down, flat and rolling, etc) - I recommend you look for them. (I have some, but i can't host them from my curently country)

sorry for the small rant - gl

[TequilaChaser]

another thing that is helpful when utilizing one's advantage of a better roll rate is to unload your G's right before rolling to switch directions or to maintain your lift vector.....

some will continue to be pulling on their controls ( elevator up input ) while also attempting to roll their plane...... doing so burns up even more energy.....


a plane with good roll rate is a plane that if flown correctly can save even more energy while in the process of changing their lift vector direction...

a better roll rate plane can help some planes gain angles advantage on a more superior sustained turnrate planes if used properly, and help negate the disadvantage the better rollrate plane has when up against a better turning plane.......

but as with everything, practice, practice, practice......

hope this helps

ruah, can u name those pdf guides, or shoot me a PM regarding them, I 'd be most interested