Attacking bombers

[Roadblck]

I've been searching the forums for a while, and apart from some 5-8 year old threads, with links to films that no longer exist, I can't find any information on "how to attack bombers".

If anyone has some film(s) that demonstrate sound tactics for attacking a bomber (or formation), I need help!

I know not to attack them from behind.  Someone told me something like:  "make slashing attacks, rake your guns along their plane, wingtip to wingtip".  Unfortunately, I have no idea how to set this up, or what it looks like when executed properly.  I've tried attacking them by diving from above, but I can't set up a guns solution that will land hits (I'm likely just doing it wrong).

Any help is greatly appreciated.   

[wgmount]

this one is from 2007.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,212523.15.html


you can also type 'Mtnman bomber attack' into the search function and find some stuff. he had some nice film not too long ago on attacking buffs. it takes some practice though even after watching the film.


here is the link to the film I believe.


http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,290248.msg3689835.html#msg3689835

[Lusche]

I know not to attack them from behind.  Someone told me something like:  "make slashing attacks, rake your guns along their plane, wingtip to wingtip".  

Follow the first part of this advice, but ignore the second half!
Deliberate raking the enemy bomber is just wasting ammunition. People that do this are the ones complaining about the bomber's seemingly unreal damage resistance "I put XXX round into him, and he still flies!"
You should always try to concentrate your fire. Of course, it's not always easy to to, but even in fast slashing attacks you should aim for a single point to ensure maximum concentration of your hitting power. Best places to aim at are cockpit (recommended), wingtips (hard to do in slashing attacks) and in case of the B-24 the wingroots. But even if you hot another location, it's always important to concentrate your fire - better break one vital part than just soften up a dozen different ones.


For setting up your attacks, it's basically all about patience and practice. Most fighter pilots fail, just because they don't take their time to get into a favorable attacking position. They climb/stalk a bomber for 10 mins, and then refuse to add another 2 mins to get into any other position than sticking up their nose into the bombers butt...


If you get above and ahead of the bomber, and then slash down to attack his 1-3 clock position (or 9-11), you are putting the enemy gunner at a disadvantage: Not only you are a fast moving target, but you are also coming in at very different angles that make you (combined with some lack of orientation for the gunner when shooting upwards) a very difficult target to track. It's seems to be more difficult for you to hot the bomber, but trust me: It's much more difficult for the bomber gunner.

Another way is the flat head-on attack, but I wouldn't really recommend it unless it simply happens to present itself: The high closure speed increases the collison risk, and you may find yourself in a bad position for setting up your next attack after passing the buffs.

Particularly in US fighters with many .50 cal guns and even more ammo, you may also try for a diving 6 oclock attack from high altitude. It's easier for you to hit, but at 500mph you are still a difficult target for the enemy gunner.


Unfortunately I can't put up some films tonight...maybe tomorrow.

[Wiley]

My favorite way to attack bombers is from directly above.  It's pretty close to what Lusche is referring to as a diving six attack, but when I start to make my pass I'm nearly directly above the bomber group, maybe even a little ahead of them when I start.  When I pull through to make my gunnery pass I'm a little bit behind them.  It presents the simplest gun solution for me, but due to the speed, many bomber gunners can't track you.  Occasionally, if they see you all the way in and are really good they'll get you, but the same can be said for practically any attack angle.  Some of the bomber gunners in here are terrifyingly good, so there is no 100% sure way to avoid their guns.

To reinforce what Lusche said, try to concentrate your fire on one part.  I like to aim for the cockpit, wingroots are also an excellent target if you have the gunnery to hit them.

The other most critical component to success is, take the time to set up properly.  Starting from a less than great position means the guy's probably going to get you.

The only other advice I'd give is when you're within gunnery range, you don't want to loiter in view of the same gun position for too long.  If you can force him to change which gun he's in to keep you in view, it takes him time to get guns on after he switches seats.  So, for example, if you're making your initial run in from high, he's probably in the top gun position, it can be a good idea to be lower than the bomber after you make your pass so he can't keep tracking you from the top gun position, if that makes sense.

Wiley.

[Roadblck]

Great info and links, thanks guys!  I had tried narrowing my search to threads within the last year or two, so I missed the one(s) from '07.

Thanks again! 

[Blooz]

The Snailman nailed it. Great advice there!

Most important is to be in proper position to attack. That gives you options. Don't rush it. Those BUFFs ain't going anywhere fast. It's boring, unglamorous work but it sure makes the job easy when you find that target all nice, fat and slow. Set yourself up to intercept BEFORE they drop on the prime targets (carriers, fields being used in heavy attacks, fields under heavy attack). Shooting down a bomber after they drop isn't really helping much. Cruise just inside the front line. Eventually you'll run across someone trying to come through. If you wait for them to hit the radar you won't have much time.

[CAP1]

what's worked best for me, is slashing attacks. like you mentioned.
 when i do them, i start out about 2k above them, and a little out front. i turn into them, so i'm flying through the tail end, descending slightly, going fast, and allowing myself the ability to turn onto their heading as i set up for the next pass.

 when i'm in the bombers, these types of attacks work the best against me too. they're the hardest for me to track from the gunner position.

 also, never ever go for the center(main) bomber first. always go for one of the drones first.

 i may have a film going against ju88's from the ava........i kinda sucked at it, but ya can get an idea, if i can find it.

[MutleyBR]

Hi Roadblock.

You can check this thread, "Best plane for high alt buff killing"

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,284671.0.html

IMO the main problem with attacking buffs nowadays is the absurd altitudes they're flying...

Mutley 

[Lusche]

IMO the main problem with attacking buffs nowadays is the absurd altitudes they're flying...

I'm curious which altitudes you deem to be "absurd"?

With the exception of the Mossie raiders, I don't see buffs flying any higher than years ago in general.

[MutleyBR]

Anything above 30000 ft for me is absurd, at that altitude, guns tended to jam due to low temperatures, which doesn't happen in AH. And, performance... Now you meet them at 35-37000 ft...

Anyway itīs just a cartoon airplanes game... Forget it.

As I said in the other post , I'm not going after absurdly high flying buffs anymore. Let them go from A to B alone.


Mutley 

[Lusche]

Anything above 30000 ft for me is absurd, at that altitude, guns tended to jam due to low temperatures, which doesn't happen in AH. And, performance... Now you meet them at 35-37000 ft...

My educated guess is that less than 2% of all missions are flown that high.

Buff hunting is my main business in AH, particularly high alt buffs, but buffs above 25K are extremely rare. No wonder given the time you need to get a bomber to that altitude) Getting  a loaded bomber to 35k... good luck

[Krusty]

Happens more often than you might think... Bombers are already faster than historical counterparts, due to full throttle, and climb 2x or 3x as fast as historical versions because they carry a fraction of the fuel weight (much faster climb rates).

It's rare I don't see bombers above 20K lately. Then again, it might just be the times I'm logged in.

Problems with this are:

1) You can't stop them from bombing their target unless you're already above them and faster than them.

2) If you try making an attack, even from the sides, you will fall behind after only a couple of passes and once again be in the "dead 6 zone".

3) Head-on attacks work well.... ONCE.... After that you spend 15 minutes repositioning to catch up. Better to make a high or slashing attack WITH the direction of the bombers, so that you exist in the front half of their wings, rather than behind them. This makes you last a little longer before you are behind them again, or cuts the "reposition, reattack" time down because you are moving with them.

3A) If you do this keep an eye on the target. They can turn and once again leave you behind their rear quarter.

4) If you're in a fast plane go into a fast climb (i.e. not auto climb) so that you are climbing while keeping even with the target. Your climb rate will be lower, but you won't fall behind in distance because you slow down to between 150-175 IAS (default climb range for most planes). Auto angle or .speed 210-225 will do. Adjust as needed. Fly to stay outside of guns while climbing up (parallel, behind, whatever... don't climb directly under because - duh - you'll climb into their guns)

Just some initial food for thought...

[Lusche]

Bombers are already faster than historical counterparts, due to full throttle, and climb 2x or 3x as fast as historical versions because they carry a fraction of the fuel weight (much faster climb rates).

IN AH, a Lanc with 100% fuel and 14k bombs takes 116 minutes to reach 30k from sea level, 82 minutes at 75% and 62 minutes at 50%. But as  50% give you about 85 minutes of flying time at takeoff, it's a bit limited. With 25% fuel you run out of juice before even getting to 30k.

And while 75% gets you quicker to alt than 100% it isn't neccessarily an unhistorical fuel loadout, as we have a 2.0 fuel modifier in MA which offsets the gain.

[BaldEagl]

I like to start above and behind the bombers.  Maybe 3K above and 1K behind.  I go into a dive to intercept the bomber's cockpit when we're at nearly equal alt.  During my dive the bombers are out of view below me.  At the last moment I nose down steeper, align my shot, and open fire.  As soon as my pass is over I go nearly vertical (60-70 degrees) and, once I've regained most of my alt, I roll 180 degrees, pull back on the stick until I'm in another intercept dive, roll upright and repeat the process.

[Mongoose]

<Some Deleted>

You should always try to concentrate your fire. Of course, it's not always easy to to, but even in fast slashing attacks you should aim for a single point to ensure maximum concentration of your hitting power. Best places to aim at are cockpit (recommended), wingtips (hard to do in slashing attacks) and in case of the B-24 the wingroots.

What about the engines?  I would think setting an engine and/or wing on fire would be ideal.