Author Topic: Sorry to be negative ...  (Read 2016 times)

Offline Chilli

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2010, 03:13:47 AM »
JHerne,
 
What do you think about the in game skins in reference to the no icon high visibility aspect of the invasion stripes?  Many of the AvA and no icon enthusiasts are thrilled with the immersion challenge of spotting prey and evading becoming easy prey, that loosing the bright red banner (enemy icon) delivers. 

From a historical standpoint, I always thought it would add to the experience with a limited planeset, to have skins closely representative of their WW2 counterparts.  HTC and the very talented skinners for the game have done an amazing job of providing a good sample of paint schemes for most planes.

For example which Pony B and FW190 A5 skins would also be appropriate (considering the desert setting)?

Offline Perrine

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2010, 03:35:07 AM »
The G-14 was probably a bit much, as they started to appear in the late spring, early summer of 1944. P-38s and P-47s, with a few notable exceptions, were doing more low-level ground work as the P-51s took over long-range escort duties. The B-model Mustangs were certainly spot-on. D-model Mustangs appeared about the same time as the G-14, mid-1944.

The A-5 and A-8 would have been appropriate, as would the 109G-6.


Not to nitpick but wasn't fw190a5 already phased out by 1944?
I saw some luftwaffe guncam clips and the most common 190s they used in early 44 were A-6 and A-8s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quPkPvGxtHo
Also 110Gs were still used in '44 (as seen in Die Deutsche Wochenschau)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReDxqiWBf_w&feature=related


some advanced recyclying program they have here :lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4UVXSGpSh8&feature=related
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 03:42:17 AM by Perrine »

Offline JHerne

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2010, 07:13:34 AM »
Cap - I was in NJ for almost 16 years - lived in Morris County (Rockaway/Denville) and commuted to Teterboro everyday on I-80. In Wisconsin now - around here a traffic jam is when there's farm tractor on the road (one of those monster dual-wheeled beasts that's so big it can't pull over!).

A-5s were still operational in early-to-mid 1944, but they were certainly supplanted by later variants. Gotta remember, only the A-6 and A-8 saw any serious production numbers after the A-5. It was hard to place a specific date set on this particular scenario because we had overlaps in the planeset - no one's fault, we simply didn't have the specific variants to make it all-inclusive.

The 190A-5 was relatively common in the middle part of 1943, supplanted by the A-6 in the fall, and the A-8 in early 1944. Most of these earlier airframes were hand-me-downs as newer airframes arrived, or eventually, relegated to training units.

As to the skins, with any historical scenario, you have two choices, develop a multi-aircraft scenario around the aircraft you have available and not worry about the skins, or narrow the aircraft choices and try to find specific skins that represent groups that met in combat. Its not an easy task unless you have a knowledge of specific unit histories or have access to that information.

As it applies to the game, I love having to determine if that black spec is a friend or foe. It adds an element to the game that is far more realistic than a red tag hovering overhead, and telling me how close he really is. It also gives you a few more seconds in pressing the attack, especially if you don't use tracers (I switch them on and off depending on what I'm flying). At least in AvA, you know what planeset is available and you can make your decisions based largely on the wing profile or shape of the aircraft. At least in my case, by the time I'm close enough to make out the color scheme, I've already determined what kind of aircraft I'm facing...errr...getting shot down by!  :salute
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Offline captain1ma

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2010, 07:23:56 AM »
At least in my case, by the time I'm close enough to make out the color scheme, I've already determined what kind of aircraft I'm facing...errr...getting shot down by!  :salute

dont think you have a monopoly on that! im still pulling lead out of my butt!

Offline Seadog36

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2010, 12:38:50 PM »
But tonight's Tuesday event was not fun.

No one was talking on channel.  Maybe it was my deodorant.  I realize check sixes are difficult with the stealth 109s. 

The Axis plane set was dominant.  In a no icon arena, small, high acceleration planes dominate.  For the US birds to see the Axis, one had to get low.  Once low, the Axis could work the e advantage.  Plus, smaller is hard to see.  Half the frikkin US planes had invasion stripes intended to make them easier to see!  A nice accelerating bird, the P-38, can be seen for miles in the no icon world.

OK.  Come in high, then.  They see you up there.  You don't see them.  They can accelerate and climb to you.  Reverse rolls.  You see them above you.  No way you are going to climb to them.

The only thing that could balance the 109 scourge would be a spit or a hurricane.

I agree 100%~ hurri c's and spits destroy 109s in the AvA. All the US planes are suited for high alt high speed bnz attacks~ which are extremely hard to execute with the cammo against the terrain w no icons. It was fun though, and you can always reup

Offline CAP1

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2010, 12:57:36 PM »
I agree 100%~ hurri c's and spits destroy 109s in the AvA. All the US planes are suited for high alt high speed bnz attacks~ which are extremely hard to execute with the cammo against the terrain w no icons. It was fun though, and you can always reup

yep....bnz....





get outta that jug.....or learn to turn it........but do that before you claim american iron can only bnz.

 get with mace or rodent. they;ll help ya.
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Offline Seadog36

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2010, 01:43:25 PM »
yep....bnz....
(Image removed from quote.)
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get outta that jug.....or learn to turn it........but do that before you claim american iron can only bnz.

 get with mace or rodent. they;ll help ya.

Yeah, showing  pics of US planes zooming down on axis planes, really makes my point, thank you. I was just agreeing with your pal grumpy when the said the exact same thing to me. US planes are generally outclassed in that AvA scenario. With a face full of cannon german planes go for the ho a lot more often too and win with one 30mm ping. Duh, Its going to take a P40 a lot more hits to do the same damage. P-38s did what they did in the Pacific not by turning on the deck with Zeeks and all the Jug aces in the ETO followed the same guidelines at high altitude, not turning on the deck w a bunch of 109s. Rodent or Mace would be the first to say: "Stay fast".

I know you are just trying to be contrary with me like you always do. If it was Grumpy that posted the comment I'm sure you would be the first provide a page full of pics to back him up.
Still nice pictures though, keep them coming and we can modify the captions to suit any argument you like.

Offline CAP1

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2010, 02:04:54 PM »
yep....bnz....
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

get outta that jug.....or learn to turn it........but do that before you claim american iron can only bnz.

 get with mace or rodent. they;ll help ya.

Yeah, showing  pics of US planes zooming down on axis planes, really makes my point, thank you. I was just agreeing with your pal grumpy when the said the exact same thing to me. US planes are generally outclassed in that AvA scenario. With a face full of cannon german planes go for the ho a lot more often too and win with one 30mm ping. Duh, Its going to take a P40 a lot more hits to do the same damage. P-38s did what they did in the Pacific not by turning on the deck with Zeeks and all the Jug aces in the ETO followed the same guidelines at high altitude, not turning on the deck w a bunch of 109s. Rodent or Mace would be the first to say: "Stay fast".

I know you are just trying to be contrary with me like you always do. If it was Grumpy that posted the comment I'm sure you would be the first provide a page full of pics to back him up.
Still nice pictures though, keep them coming and we can modify the captions to suit any argument you like.

you think those pics show me zooming? i'm below the 110, flaps are out in the pee40 as i'm coming through my turn......i might've been high speed against that fw.........but then i'm not saddled up on him yet.

 i think there's plenty of pile-its here that will attest to my lack of bnz flying/fighting style......both here, and int he regular arenas.

 mace and rodent may tell you to stay fast......but i'd be willing to bet that they can teach you stuff about that pee47 that you've got no clue about.

EDIT><

 i just looked at the name of that pic against the fw....that was some guy that tried to sneak up on me whilst i kilt that kruger nutball in his bee17's.
i had no alt, speed, or e advantages over that fw either. if i had taken that shot from a different angle, you'd also see the missing rudder.

 so ya....there was no bnz on my part............ :devil
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2010, 02:38:16 PM »
Yeah, showing  pics of US planes zooming down on axis planes, really makes my point, thank you. I was just agreeing with your pal grumpy when the said the exact same thing to me. US planes are generally outclassed in that AvA scenario. With a face full of cannon german planes go for the ho a lot more often too and win with one 30mm ping.

It's worth giving the US planes some extra time, Seadog.  The P-47 turns pretty well against the 109s, although it can't keep up with them in a climb.  Just about everything the US has is superior to the 190A8 (never could figure that out, it certainly doesn't match anecdotal historical accounts) in any kind of a fight (except jousts).  The P-38 v 109 is one of the classic best fights AH2 has to offer, and even the 51B, making clever use of its flaps, is a fearsome opponent down low.

There is also this:  AvA has a lot of dedicated 109 pilots who have practiced with it for extended periods.  You're coming up against some quality talent anytime you fly Allied.  (Note that people who are flying a 109 and going for the HO probably are not in this category.)

Rufe:  Don't forget that you can grab a skin that doesn't have invasion stripes for nearly any US plane.

- oldman

Offline Perrine

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2010, 02:42:01 PM »
I agree 100%~ hurri c's and spits destroy 109s in the AvA.

Hope 190s are not around :noid
I think i've seen this scenario before... In teamed format standard luft tactic is for for 109s to dance with allied aircraft vertically, and while they're hanging vertically 190s come and pick horizontally (that's if 109 can't kill it)

« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 02:46:43 PM by Perrine »

Offline Seadog36

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2010, 02:56:30 PM »
190's and 110's spraying cannon everywhere :confused:

Offline CAP1

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2010, 02:57:38 PM »
It's worth giving the US planes some extra time, Seadog.  The P-47 turns pretty well against the 109s, although it can't keep up with them in a climb.  Just about everything the US has is superior to the 190A8 (never could figure that out, it certainly doesn't match anecdotal historical accounts) in any kind of a fight (except jousts).  The P-38 v 109 is one of the classic best fights AH2 has to offer, and even the 51B, making clever use of its flaps, is a fearsome opponent down low.

There is also this:  AvA has a lot of dedicated 109 pilots who have practiced with it for extended periods.  You're coming up against some quality talent anytime you fly Allied.  (Note that people who are flying a 109 and going for the HO probably are not in this category.)

Rufe:  Don't forget that you can grab a skin that doesn't have invasion stripes for nearly any US plane.

- oldman

bolded.....so THAT'S why i can't keep my pee38 in one piece!!
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Offline Perrine

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2010, 03:10:27 PM »
Just about everything the US has is superior to the 190A8 (never could figure that out, it certainly doesn't match anecdotal historical accounts) in any kind of a fight (except jousts).  

I think that plane was really meant for jousting. It can't even turn tighter than a 110g in this game :joystick:
Jousting and shoot & scoot is how they excelled in the russian front, and chuck yeager's p51 was shot down in a joust  :airplane:

Offline CAP1

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2010, 03:14:30 PM »
is it my imagination, or is there a lot of bait floating around in the waters?
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Offline Melvin

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Re: Sorry to be negative ...
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2010, 03:15:24 PM »
^^^^ What Oldman said.......

Last night I was able to wrangle Oldman into a turnfight, me in 109 and he in 47. Let me tell you, in the hands of a good stick the 47 will turn with the 109 all day. (Saw it with my own eyes.)

Another thing that I saw with my own eyes, is the ability for a 38 to be a deadly bird to the hapless 109 jock that takes them for granted. (Just ask any of those fork-tailed devil drivers. Oh wait, i guess that's what's happening here.)

Furthermore, I rarely flew the P-40 before I was forced to in the AvA. (Side balancing is a good thing.) What I found was a big, beautiful 109 killer. I enjoyed a higher than expected level of success on the deck. ( Considering my limited skills.) Those 50's rip heck outta anything they touch. (Watch the convergance.... I found it very crucial to get that right.) Big 'ol engine, tons of guns and hard to knock down.....I love it.

I understand that these are mere antectdotes from a noob with a limited skillset, but I'm just calling it the way I saw it. Have fun and  :cheers:

<S> Melvin
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