Author Topic: flying tips  (Read 540 times)

Offline CAP1

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flying tips
« on: October 07, 2010, 12:46:33 AM »
was gonna put this in the general forums...but i think here is better......


some tips i was thinking of for AvA

everyone seems to think that the german planes are delibretly given an advantage in here.

well.....i flew a 109 the other night, and i can tell ya, it was as hard to spot a pee40, as it is to spot a 109.

so, i figured in the spirit of dawgers tips, i'd add some. mine are more on the order of flying, rather than
adjusting computer settings(i'm too stupid to make the correct adjustments)

ok...first off. camoflauge works. it works VERY well. i guess we fail to realize that in the regular arenas when
there's a bright red neon sign from nearly 2 miles away.

 when you fly to a fight, you need to decide where you think it is. if you think it's up high, then get your butt
up there. if you think it's low, then stay down on the deck.
 cons are much much easier to spot when you are co-alt, or below them. unfortunatly for us pee38 drivers,
the larger cons are much more easily spotted. kinda like real life. remember. me109 was around 33 foot wingspan
pee38 is around 55 foot wingspan.

 so lets presume a low alt fight. in the weeds, 80th style.

 whatever you choose to fly, try to pick a camo that will blend into the background. again, there aren't many camo
options for pee38s(that's 'cause real men don't need to hide in the background). i tend to keep the olive drab schemes
because they're 80th, and because they make it harder to tell exactly what the 38 is doing. they kind of "silohouette" it.

all of the other aircraft seem to have decent camo schemes available, to help you blend.

now for spotting them. we'll do easy first.
co-alt.  look for a dot. it cannot, and will not blend into the background, if it's got the sky behind it, which it will most of the
time at co-alt conditions. you can see the con at a min. of 2 miles.....once you get used to it, you can almost spot them at 3 to 5 miles.
 
 ok...so now you've got vis on them. what to do? decide on a co-alt merge, or if you think you can keep track of them, then climb
some to give yourself a little "E" to play with. be very careful doing this. you could very easily get popped by one you never saw.
that brings me to somethign i almost forgot. if you're staying on the deck.....it means exactly that.....STAY ON THE DECK. 500ft agl,
and no higher. if you're higher, the con can and will fly below you, and again...you'll get popped by one you never saw. once
you spot him, then go high. if you're going to be above 500 ft agl, then you MUST go higher than the cons "zoom" altitude, to avoid this.

 ok...so on the deck, co-alt merge. get in ther tight, and fast. i think it's about D1000 that you can see his wings. at D500, you can VERY
easily see his wings. get the hell in there, and do NOT let him extend. if you can keep him within sight like this, he cannot hide in the background.
remember....regardless of what you fly, if you let him get below you, and give him the room he wants, he will more than likely
use the camo to hide, extend, and come back with an advantage.
 when you merge this low, the fight rarely goes above 3k alt agl. even from that alt, you can position yourself to advantage, or you can
just as easily give it up to the other guy.

 high alt(meaning 10k agl and higher) is much much easier. you can spot the cons easily at 5 miles out. same rules though. get in close,
but if you're careful, you can let him as far away as 2k without having any problems. if they get below you, it is still possible to lose them
in the background, but it is also much easier to spot them.

the whole key here, is that we need to learn to "unlearn" what we've learned in the regular arenas.

 in the regular arenas, we've learned to use the neon sign to judge closure rates, and "E" states. we've learned that if we lose sight
of the other guy for a second, it's ok, 'cause we only have to spot that red neon sign to find him.
 we've learned that we have neon red signs to tell us we need to disengage, or get picked.

 in the AvA, that is all out the window. in there, you  learn to watch the other guys wings. watch what he's about to do. we learn to use
our gunsight for more than to just see where our bullets are gonna go. we learn to better judge speed and "E"(which i messed up on
BIG against jc67 the other night)
 we learn, that if we lose vis for a second, chances are when next we spot the other guy, it'll be by following the trail of his tracers
back to the muzzles of his guns.

 none of this says any of us are better than anyone else. it is just a different skill set. one that is a real challenge, and great fun to learn.
it causes us to "get" into the fight sooo much more than otherwise.

so, c'mon in guys!!!! the water's fine.  :aok
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline JC67

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Re: flying tips
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2010, 01:22:11 AM »
yea  what he said :aok


You cant shoot anyone down if you aint in the air.
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Offline Chilli

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Re: flying tips
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2010, 03:37:02 AM »
It's obviously more difficult to spot the guy against terrain than one peppering clear skies.  I like what Cap said about fly to where you "think" he is.  I have to say that radar has been very helpful, even when the guy is relatively close.  For example, when map is zoomed properly, I gain clues of where to search the terrain for my target; left rear or right front.  I am also practicing flying while using the mouse look.

Offline captain1ma

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Re: flying tips
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2010, 07:04:39 AM »
last night i used the cover of a sandstorm to whack RV6flyer. i felt very cheap about it, but that only lasted for about .1 seconds  :D

soon he came back out and did the same to me! it was great fun, but camo and sight is everything and i made atleast 5 merges, where i never saw the other plane until i looked behind me. who's bright idea of the no icons was this anyway!  :furious

thanks for all the fun and <S> to RV and Melvin and marlboro last night!

Offline trap78

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Re: flying tips
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2010, 09:24:37 AM »
Practice offline with icons turned off. The "circle of drones" is a good way to learn judging closure rates, distances and gunnery. From there try custom offline missions with multiple bad guys and icons off. This will help in adjusting your ACM and SA to cope with the absence of enemy icons.

edited in:
I would also suggest training yourself not to rely on in-flight dot dar. It's always the first target the bad guys will take out and savy players will try and keep the fight outside the radar rings if possible.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 09:30:54 AM by trap78 »

Offline Dichotomy

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Re: flying tips
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2010, 09:31:09 AM »
good idea I hadn't considered ... thanks
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Offline captain1ma

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Re: flying tips
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2010, 09:34:34 AM »
i fly in the AVA by sight and sound. my headset allows me to find people by sound. work really well when someone is sneaking up behind me. now if i could just evade them when they're back there, id be much better!

as for sight, the camo is everything in there!

Offline trap78

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Re: flying tips
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2010, 09:50:43 AM »
Another suggestion; tracers off works very well in the AvA. I can often spot tracers even if I can't see the dots. Tracer fire tells me the bandits location, heading and altitude. Gunnery without tracers is also something that can be practiced offline.

Offline CAP1

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Re: flying tips
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2010, 09:52:50 AM »
i fly in the AVA by sight and sound. my headset allows me to find people by sound. work really well when someone is sneaking up behind me. now if i could just evade them when they're back there, id be much better!

as for sight, the camo is everything in there!

excellent point. i had forgotten to mention that.

you can hear the con from nearly D2.0. this can give you a good idea if he's getting closer or farther....it can give a clue to what it is, if you don't already know(i suck at id'ing cons still) and whereabouts he is.
ingame 1LTCAP
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S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline CAP1

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Re: flying tips
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2010, 09:53:35 AM »
Practice offline with icons turned off. The "circle of drones" is a good way to learn judging closure rates, distances and gunnery. From there try custom offline missions with multiple bad guys and icons off. This will help in adjusting your ACM and SA to cope with the absence of enemy icons.

edited in:
I would also suggest training yourself not to rely on in-flight dot dar. It's always the first target the bad guys will take out and savy players will try and keep the fight outside the radar rings if possible.

i thought someone told me to use the ctrl i command to turn off icons offline....but i couldn't get them off. how to turn em off?
ingame 1LTCAP
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S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline trap78

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Re: flying tips
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2010, 09:57:24 AM »
I have the icons off function mapped to the "home" key and I don't remember what the default is. It will tell you in the key mapping menu on your clipboard.

Offline jimson

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Re: flying tips
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2010, 10:33:24 AM »
Alt-i cycles through the icon settings.

Offline Dawger

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Re: flying tips
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2010, 02:06:38 PM »
Big airplane versus small airplane.....start high and don't get anchored. Anchored is a stationary fight of any description. The little planes hugging the ground are doing two things:

1. Using camouflage to try to get a zooming belly side shot on you. Stay out of zoom range. 6K minimum ABOVE TERRAIN.

2. Before icons were turned off you saw many guys hugging the deck. You see it in the MA. They are trying to make the fight two dimensional. You can't execute a vertical attack on a deck bandit. You will crash. So he is trying to sucker you into a flat fight that his airplane favors. Don't fight on his terms. You don't have to try to kill every bandit you see. Pass him by or tempt him to climb off the deck. He will taunt you as an alt monkey. Wear the badge with pride. If you have a wingman it is especially fun to raise your skirt up nice and high and have your wingman whack him when he takes the bait.

...

When you initiate your attack, plan it so that you end up on a heading that takes you away from the threat. As an example, a classic high-low vertical attack (pure vertical so you can match the hard turning bandit with aileron only) the bandit is going to turn about 180 degrees before you reach guns range or he reverses his turn. Plan that so that you can take your shot and extend on a heading that keeps the threats behind you.

...
Close fields mean short flights for the zombies.

Here is what I have to say about zombies and tactics to defeat them.

http://home.comcast.net/~micelihouston/lessons/Stage2lessons/Stage2.htm

Of course, the egress under pressure was designed for 2 or more pilots but the same concepts apply. If you anchor close to an enemy field you die.

This means that you have to forget any thought of getting anchored with one bandit and finishing him off. You may kill him but if you can't do it quickly you will be low and slow and the zombies will be diving in on you. Set a rule for yourself. Mine is three turns. If I can't kill a bandit in three turns (or 540 degrees of rotation if it is a true circle fight) when fighting in zombieland I let him go and restock my energy and altitude cabinet.

Tough rules to follow but when I do follow them I live longer and land more often.

Offline CAP1

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Re: flying tips
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2010, 03:12:24 PM »
Big airplane versus small airplane.....start high and don't get anchored. Anchored is a stationary fight of any description. The little planes hugging the ground are doing two things:

1. Using camouflage to try to get a zooming belly side shot on you. Stay out of zoom range. 6K minimum ABOVE TERRAIN.

2. Before icons were turned off you saw many guys hugging the deck. You see it in the MA. They are trying to make the fight two dimensional. You can't execute a vertical attack on a deck bandit. You will crash. So he is trying to sucker you into a flat fight that his airplane favors. Don't fight on his terms. You don't have to try to kill every bandit you see. Pass him by or tempt him to climb off the deck. He will taunt you as an alt monkey. Wear the badge with pride. If you have a wingman it is especially fun to raise your skirt up nice and high and have your wingman whack him when he takes the bait.

...

When you initiate your attack, plan it so that you end up on a heading that takes you away from the threat. As an example, a classic high-low vertical attack (pure vertical so you can match the hard turning bandit with aileron only) the bandit is going to turn about 180 degrees before you reach guns range or he reverses his turn. Plan that so that you can take your shot and extend on a heading that keeps the threats behind you.

...
Close fields mean short flights for the zombies.

Here is what I have to say about zombies and tactics to defeat them.

http://home.comcast.net/~micelihouston/lessons/Stage2lessons/Stage2.htm

Of course, the egress under pressure was designed for 2 or more pilots but the same concepts apply. If you anchor close to an enemy field you die.

This means that you have to forget any thought of getting anchored with one bandit and finishing him off. You may kill him but if you can't do it quickly you will be low and slow and the zombies will be diving in on you. Set a rule for yourself. Mine is three turns. If I can't kill a bandit in three turns (or 540 degrees of rotation if it is a true circle fight) when fighting in zombieland I let him go and restock my energy and altitude cabinet.

Tough rules to follow but when I do follow them I live longer and land more often.

thanks for adding sir.

i figured if we can keep putting up tips such as these, we may draw more vict.....eerr.......pile-its into the ava.

 know what gets me? i'm one stubborn ass. i think any of the jg54 doods will tell ya that. yet, i came in here, and tried somethign new, and discovered it to be kinda sorta SERIOUSDLY fun. 
 i didn't think there could be a more stubborn person than me....at least according to mom........apparently she was wrong.  :devil
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)