My simple answer to the never ending question

[Guppy35]

Using last nights map as an example.

Center Isle has indestructible Airfields and V-bases.  Ords disabled.  It is purely to allow for tank v tank combat without fear of bombs dropping on your head just to wreck the fight.  It allows for air to air combat for the folks who enjoy that.  And it takes away the dropped FH bit that happens so often when a decent furball is going on.  No incentive to roll the bases as they can't be taken.  Keep enough water between the center and other bases so that anyone who is that intent on griefing the the tankers has to fly for a while.  With the fighter guys around, the odds are poor too that anyone just wanting to pick on the tankers will get clobbered.


The rest of the map goes back to base taking and winning the war.  Raise the radar height a bit, lengthen the downtime on destroyed buildings, give the base tankers more of a chance to do their thing. 


Go with one map and one latewar arena for a while to test it out.


Why I think it might work.

-It allows for the social aspect of the game for all.  As one who looks for the dogfight, I still enjoy BS'ing with folks who might be doing something else.  I enjoy the people.  I've never had much time for the 'go to the DA if you want to furball' line.  It allows folks to bounce back and forth between styles of play to try them out while not denying any style more then another.  It also allows the different styles of player to participate together should they decide to.  Nothing stops a furballer from upping to defend a base.  Nothing stops a tanker from helping to GV a capture.  Nothing stops a bomber pilot from trying his hand at a fighter, etc.

-It would seem to deal with the Euro time players complaint about numbers.  There would be no question where folks were.

-Folks keep whining about the degenerating community.  OK it's put up or shut up time.  If it goes back to the cesspool the latewar arena was prior to the split, we have our answer.  We'd prove we're not capable as a community of dealing with more then a certain number in one arena.

[kilo2]

Well I wasn't here when AH had one "cesspool" so my question is what would define it as a "cesspool?" The things I have heard was that there was a lot of things that go on now that I would not consider terrible but I can not be for sure.

[TheBug]

50-75 people in one arena could generate a great, well rounded fight.  Yet on TT we have over 400 and many times it is almost impossible to fight any kind of a sustained battle.  It is all in the mentality of the player base.  More most definitely not equates to better.

[Guppy35]

50-75 people in one arena could generate a great, well rounded fight.  Yet on TT we have over 400 and many times it is almost impossible to fight any kind of a sustained battle.  It is all in the mentality of the player base.  More most definitely not equates to better.

I don't disagree with you.  I'm just suggesting giving it a shot to put the never ending debate to rest.  Put up or shut up time. Who knows, it might work?

[The Fugitive]

The "cesspool" was generated by the numbers. It's not anything that "started happening" once the numbers hit a certain point, it's just that you noticed it once the numbers hit a certain point.

Look at it this way, picture "old aces high" as a football field. You let 200 dogs out on the field for an hour, remove the dogs, put on a blind fold and walk across the field. Odds are you are going to step in a present or two along the way. "New aces High", same field, but now put 500 dogs out there for an hour, remove the dogs, put the blind fold back on and walk back. Odds are much better that you'll need new shoes by the time you reach the other end.

The griefing that has always happened is easier to run into because more people do it. Thats why it's not a game issue, it's a "people" issue.

[kilo2]

The "cesspool" was generated by the numbers. It's not anything that "started happening" once the numbers hit a certain point, it's just that you noticed it once the numbers hit a certain point.

Look at it this way, picture "old aces high" as a football field. You let 200 dogs out on the field for an hour, remove the dogs, put on a blind fold and walk across the field. Odds are you are going to step in a present or two along the way. "New aces High", same field, but now put 500 dogs out there for an hour, remove the dogs, put the blind fold back on and walk back. Odds are much better that you'll need new shoes by the time you reach the other end.

The griefing that has always happened is easier to run into because more people do it. Thats why it's not a game issue, it's a "people" issue.

Well if you're right about the people issue then it will never stop.

[Tarstar]

The "cesspool" was generated by the numbers. It's not anything that "started happening" once the numbers hit a certain point, it's just that you noticed it once the numbers hit a certain point.

Look at it this way, picture "old aces high" as a football field. You let 200 dogs out on the field for an hour, remove the dogs, put on a blind fold and walk across the field. Odds are you are going to step in a present or two along the way. "New aces High", same field, but now put 500 dogs out there for an hour, remove the dogs, put the blind fold back on and walk back. Odds are much better that you'll need new shoes by the time you reach the other end.

The griefing that has always happened is easier to run into because more people do it. Thats why it's not a game issue, it's a "people" issue.

Well put Fug..    I do think an "uncapture able" T-town/Fighter town would be a good thing tho, IMHO

[The Fugitive]

Well if you're right about the people issue then it will never stop.

No it won't. Some of the issues could be changed with "rewards". Give more perks/points/score for doing things the way the game was intended. To me the game was intended as combat arena. Whether it's A2A, A2g, G2G, or win the war, it ALL should involve combat. Most people look to cut corners and avoid those situations that bring combat.

Some of them do what they do for score/perks.

Set it up so that if you get a kill using a HO you only get a quarter of what you normally get.

The higher in alt you release your bombs in a buff the less of them you need to do the same damage as a dive bombing buff does.

The farther you are from a spawn the more points you get for a GV kill.

Will this stop the HOs and the divebombing buff or spawn camping? No, but it might slow it some, at least for those that score/point/perks are important. But of course NOBODY watches the scoreboard  

Some people play this game just to piss the other guy off, even Hitech goes along with that. Those are the guys that bomb the GV battles, or take out FHs at a furball. Sure it happened in the old AH, but you see it more today only due to the numbers.  It's their $15 and they are having their fun I suppose, but these days it seems harder to avoid stepping in a pile of dog crap while your looking for YOUR kind of fun.

[bustr]

Dunbar's number is a theoretical cognitive limit to the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships. These are relationships in which an individual knows who each person is, and how each person relates to every other person. Proponents assert that numbers larger than this generally require more restrictive rules, laws, and enforced norms to maintain a stable, cohesive group. No precise value has been proposed for Dunbar's number. It lies between 100 and 230, but a commonly used value is 150

Back then squads were smaller and their members knew everyone in the community. So the community was better self regulating. With time the squads got larger, and as they got larger and no longer knew everyone in the community the group dynamic turned to Us vs. Them. Without the common goals that the smaller community shared as the game experience, we have now reached a diffusion of what to do as a rewarding experience. Dogfight so far has solved this with his squad by giving his hoard tangable goals and rewards for their efforts. Thats part of the friction between them and the community. They are a large cohesive organised group with objectives and many of the rest of us no longer are.

This is refelcted in our asking HiTech to solve our problem by placing barriers in the way of the groups who are organised and cohesive to diffuse their effectivness in favor of our current lack of direction. Some validity can be given to hindering the hoards a bit. They seem to have a social impact on the game culture due to a pardigm shift in focus from rugged individualism and fighting to achive your goal, to being part of a BORG and wining fights by any means just short of writing your own aimbot.

HiTech must have the constitution of a Demigod.........

[Yossarian]

Tbh, I'd rather deal with the cesspool (or even just have a long squelch list) than be in a game that's no fun for me.

[bustr]

Remove ch200 and leave only the ability to PM across countries.

But, then the community would destabalise eventualy in another way. The cesspool only existed because we could abuse each other publicly across country boundries. Without the ability to rub salt into a wound publicly, you have removed one of the support foundations to any game like this. Before Dunbars number was exceeded, everyone knew it was good natured text garbage. Once the number was exceeded, it became derogitory language from a stranger.

Thus came all of the tools for text and voice anonymous moderation and reporting bad people to HTC.

Proponents assert that numbers larger than this generally require more restrictive rules, laws, and enforced norms to maintain a stable, cohesive group.

[AAJagerX]

An uncapturable TT...  No thanks.  If GV drivers don't want to get bombed, go play WOT.  It's a part of combat in AH.  

Don't ya think that most of the tankers would just migrate to the uncapturable area, thus reducing their effective use elsewhere?  If ya want to be free from worrying about aircraft, play a game that doesn't have them at all.  

I try not to egg many GV's unless they're a threat to a friendly base.  That said...  It is unfortunate that some GV fights are "ruined" by aircraft, but that's the nature of the beast.

My .02

EDIT:  I do feel bad for what the non - US players have to deal with as far as arena caps are concerned though...  That just sucks.  

[Guppy35]

An uncapturable TT...  No thanks.  If GV drivers don't want to get bombed, go play WOT.  It's a part of combat in AH.  

Don't ya think that most of the tankers would just migrate to the uncapturable area, thus reducing their effective use elsewhere?  If ya want to be free from worrying about aircraft, play a game that doesn't have them at all.  

I try not to egg many GV's unless they're a threat to a friendly base.  That said...  It is unfortunate that some GV fights are "ruined" by aircraft, but that's the nature of the beast.

My .02

EDIT:  I do feel bad for what the non - US players have to deal with as far as arena caps are concerned though...  That just sucks.  

Personally I could care less about GVs.  But the goal seems to be to make it easier for folks to feel some success, enjoy what they like to do and maybe get better at it.  The ongoing whine is generally about guys ruining the GV fights.  If there is one spot on the map where the GVs can fight GVs what would it hurt?  99% of the map can be bombed to oblivion, GVs included.  Could be some GV fanatic gets interest, then gets practice then expands his horizions to help the base takers.

[Yossarian]

(My above post was about titanic tuesday, just to clarify).

Also, being more-or-less a dedicated GV killer myself, I have to agree with Guppy.  Whenever I wound up over tank town, I'd always wind up wondering what the point was of having a tank town there, when:
a) tanks are often easily visible from ~5,000 feet (despite being 'camouflaged'), making it easy to bomb them
b) anyone with a bomb strapped to their plane (or even a decently-large gun) is capable of immobilising or killing a tank.

Those two things are key reasons why I think tank town should be moved elsewhere - it just won't work if planes with ords are based nearby.

[bustr]

HiTech might put something capturable in there to make getting a bomb dropped on your tank worth the insult when you take what ever away from the insulting dropper of bombs.

Other wise it seems a tad obvious that the giant uncapturable town was placed there to promote GV combat. But, then again if I was a GV'er getting the snot kicked outta me by a well placed tank expertin I might call a freind to drop a bomb to help me. Seem to remember they did things like that in WW2. Germans didn't like much either.

Ahhhh, everyone wants to play in the same sand box that everyone else is playing in because thats just where everyone is. But no one likes getting a little sand thrown on their personal sand castel. After all your sand castle is more special than their sand castles.

HiTech provided an area in the DA for tank battles that could not be bombed. If the MA is an open free for all by HTC's design, why are you asking HiTech to place limitations on how other players are able to play the game? Sounds like a movement is afoot to prevail on HiTech to cordon off a portion of the open MA arena to a Special Interest GV only following of players which excludes interaction by aircraft. Does your Party intend to eventualy threaten HTC with your patronage dollars if they do not conceed to your special interest in an exclusive only for GV's zone?

Good lord Aces High has it's own home grown special victim minority class. This thread sounds like the early rumblings of organising a protected victim class political party to start making demands for special concessions as an abused minority. What next? Anyone who dares to drop a bomb on a GV becomes painted with a name marking them as an abuser of a minority class of players in the game?

In that case I want a special gunsight that gives me 100% accuracy at all times. Who wants to join my special interest party so we can demand HiTech give us lesser abillity abused pilots this concession of special interest to us? I know it's availble in the TA. But all the cool kids and action is in the LWMA's. Waaaaa, if HiTech is giving out special tank zones in the MA I want my special gunsight. It's only fair because I'm whining just as lound as this special interst GV group is whining.