CAP of CV106

[FiLtH]

    CV106 wasnt attacked until last few minutes of the frame. Just want to clarify that for scores, seeing how the 110s made a mess of the carrier.

[oakranger]

    CV106 wasnt attacked until last few minutes of the frame. Just want to clarify that for scores, seeing how the 110s made a mess of the carrier.

I can not image what squad did that.

[Drano]

What happened was I had assigned a squad to hit the carrier and they didn't show up. So I switched a squad from defense to attack. They weren't pleased about it and i don't know that they actually did switch. Apparantly not. I had assigned 110s to hit it earlier also but I guess that didn't happen either. Wasn't sure if it had or hadn't been hit so I told everyone in range to hit it late in the frame. That was after reports of F4Fs were coming in at V17. I'm like--but those guys should have been swimming an hour ago! WTF? Fog of war. <sigh>

Drano

[Jonah]

I seem to recall a message on country channel around T+25 to T+35 about a cv being sunk. this was just before the first wave of fighters and b25c's attack v17. The only one who refused in the group you reassigned drano, to m knowledge, was climber. I dont know what all this last minute talk is about really. Best check which squad was in the initial 110 attack, see what time they started shooting at things.

[Bino]

JG11 was originally ordered to rearm after our initial attack on A47 for defensive CAP over one of the airbases on the Southwest coast of Sicily.  After we had launched (and already jettisoned our bombs) we were reassigned to attack the CV that was Northwest of the island, near V17.  When we got there, the CV was already burning from an earlier attack.  I think that only two of us got in a couple of strafing passes before the flak and fighters got us.

[Nefarious]

Will look into any infractions soon, Scores for the entire FSO will be posted this weekend.

[climber]

I was leading the squad asked by Drano to change from defense to attack.  Drano please check your PM's.

I don't plan on going into the issue in depth here but the request was less than 1 minute before fields opened.  We had prepared extensively for our mission and quite honestly did not feel we should be asked to scramble to an unprepared mission due to another squads failure to appear.

Had we been given more warning than T-1 we would have been more than happy to oblige.  The 77th as a squad loves flying FSO and revels in the challenge it offers week to week. 

Any blame placed on my squad's not following orders should be placed on me, I made the call.

-Climber
77th FS "Gamblers"
CO 2nd Wing

[saltee]

Per our logs, Zman made our first strike at 23:26:00, with Gort and myself right behind him.

II/JG27 (flying 110s) was primarily tasked with an offensive strike on shipping (CV110) and was then given the secondary mission of providing a CAP for A20.  Upon completion of the strike, we RTB'ed to A83 to rearm/refuel.  As this mission was defensive, we dropped our ordnance shortly after t/o.  While closing in on A20, we received a message that a TG was in the vicinity of 9, 7, 5 (CV106).  As we were right there, we diverted to intercept.  TG was sighted, so the 3 of us made one strafing pass each.  There was at least one F4F defending.  Between the ack and the F4F, only one of us was able to RTB.  While egressing, I heard Drano requesting for more aircraft to strike that target.  I figured all was well.  

BTW, we never did have any escorts with us.  No idea what happened there.

If an infraction was committed, and we were the culprit, it was certainly unintentional.  We were working with the information made available to us.  Call it "the fog of war", or "a failure to communicate".  Either way, we didn't have any negative info re the legitimacy of that TG.  We had no idea if we were the first strike or the tenth on that target.

Lastly, I'd like to apologize for probably being the last person to land.  Being an old fossil, I must have missed the land anywhere call.  Sorry if I delayed the cessation of hostilities.

Any blame placed on my squad's not following orders should be placed on me, I made the call.

Yeah...what Climber said.

Just want to clarify that for scores, seeing how the 110s made a mess of the carrier.

Thanks for the compliment, FiLtH.  Not bad for 3 light 110s, huh?

<S>



    

[RSLQK186]

The following is not intended as part of any debate on what transpired last night. The decisions made by the CiC and COs were made at critical times in the frame and should not be open to my opinions.
It is intended to quell potential debate of how the rules relate to the authority of the CiC. I feel less is more when it comes to how many rules is enough.

At first I was thinking that perhaps the authority of the CiC needed to be better defined in the rules.
But upon reviewing them I find that the CiC responsibility dictates his authority.

From the rules: "These CiC's are responsible for specific orders for their side, plane usage by squads, making sure all targets are attacked by T+60, and vectoring squads to other targets during the event".
The absence of a term such as "specific orders for their side that contain plane usage..." leads me to believe that his responsibility to the T+60, vectoring and credible force rules extend beyond the issuance of the orders earlier in the week.
The squad CO's responsibility to the CiC's written orders or last minute "audible" are not as defined in the rules. It has been set more by president. They are given some leeway on purpose so that the CiCs don't have to micro manage if they choose not to.

Drano had little choice in the matter and recognised this.
Weather the squads involved acted appropriately is for the CMs to decide. If they choose to respond in the forum with an opinion, it can become president due to the rules: "Squad C.O.'s and X.O.'s are expected to keep up with the Squad Operations forum and current happenings of Squad Operations."(Admittedly, I may be taking this out of context) This will not completely prevent new COs in the future from being unaware of the CM opinion, but should greatly reduce the chances of a similar situation.

In retrospect:<<< vary impotent it is understood that I am not under the pressure they were.
The CiC may have had squads with COs that have been CiC many times and would understand the importance of his request.
A squad that is given a last minute switch-a-roo has the option of holding in or retuning to the tower for a few minutes to reorganise.
It is understandable if neather of these options were considered due to split second decision making. Just putting it out there for future reference.


 

[TequilaChaser]

just a friendly observation here regarding the AXIS CiC's audible mission change last night.......

for 15+ solid minutes the AXIS CiC was working wonders with the situation of a missing from the roster FSO group....

I know it was for a minimum of 15 minutes, for I logged in at 10:42 PM EST and started my film...... and it was already being discussed on CH 150

so nothing was as assumed "Last Minute" 

soon as the CM texted "Fields Open"  people JUMP to take off...we all wait with anticipation to fly in the FSO

things happen in "The FOG of WAR" atmosphere........ the command is always making down to the last minute and on the cuff changes through out the FSO events from the time we all log in on Friday night until the FSO CM closes the Logs for that evenings action.......

no reason to carrying on any debate...... if there is any problem then let it be dealt with by the FSO CM's, the CiC's, and any FSO player or FSO squad if it comes to that....

no need in people getting their drawers all up in a bunch......

anyhows

had a blast last night, was a fun 2 frames I was able to participate in these past 2 weeks

Thank you FSO players 

[gyrene81]

Not sure what all of the fuss is about, it was a simple error made in the heat of the moment based on faulty communications. Drano did a good job keeping the inmates from running amok.

Logs show the first strikes on CV106 occurred at around 23:26 which was something around 35 minutes after the T-60 deadline for initial strikes on a target after the fields open...happens sometimes. No biggie, adjust the scores and go on with the show.

[FiLtH]

 Yup thats all I wanted.

[daddog]

Good post RSL, TC,

Not about to start pointing any fingers and I think many of you feel the same way. Who here would not be upset by having to switch from fighters to bombers (in the last few minutes) after practicing for days in the assigned fighter.  I would have been upset myself On the flip side the CiC was simply doing what he felt was best in a very difficult situation coupled with a squad that was a no-show.

If nothing else this underlines the responsibility of squads to contact the CM's if they depart from FSO and not leave others having to pick up after them, which IMHO is largely what happened. When squads don't show, it is a mess for them, and often a mess for others as well. Nobody wants to pick up a mess they did not make. It ruins a night that many look forward too all week. 

[saltee]

I concur.  If we were indeed the first group to strike C106, at 23:26, I suggest ours, plus any succeeding strikes, be editted out of the logs.  Would it be possible to have the adjusted logs, and corresponding scores, reissued to the masses?  Or would that be a torturous exercise somewhere in between tedium and apathy?

[Wagger]

     It is a game.  Make the adjustment and move on.  What saltee said.  Thats the civilian side of me. 

     The military side of me has been on the recieving end of many FRAGO's, or change in plans.  I don't know how many times we have been on the move in an operation and recieved orders for change of mission.  During the 1st Gulf War we were given a very detailed Operations Order And spent a week of preparation and rehearsals.  Then one morning the word came down.  Mount up and follow me.  Didn't quite meet the standards for any Operations Order I was taught but that is the real world.  Suck it up and move on.

     Now Civilian life again.  I'm still alive and no matter what happens this game is not going to kill me. Live and learn.