Author Topic: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?  (Read 1372 times)

Offline milesobrian

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Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« on: October 23, 2010, 09:24:22 PM »
How about the 20mm cannon does that have the mine shells?

what is the ammo load out for the German 131 and cannon, the type and order of the ammo?

Offline Saxman

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2010, 10:39:31 PM »
German cannon are "belted" with generic rounds that each have a charge averaged from the total destructive power of all the rounds together. IE: Historically your ammo is belted in a sequence of five rounds, three of which do 1pt of damage, one that does 2pts, and one doing 5pts. In game, each round instead does 2pts of damage.

The result is both good and bad. It means the rounds will all do more damage than the historically least destructive round, but at the same time is a disadvantage since you also lose the extra punch of the individual high-power rounds.

I THINK this applies to other weapons like the Browning M2. While historically the Deuce would be belted with varying mixes of ball and API depending on availability, theater (IIRC, API was more common in the Pacific due to the combustability of most Japanese aircraft) and preference (some squadrons in the PTO took it on themselves to belt a larger mix of API than was standard practice) I THINK our Browning does the average damage of X rounds of ball and Y rounds of API.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 10:43:08 PM by Saxman »
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Offline milesobrian

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2010, 12:01:28 AM »
German cannon are "belted" with generic rounds that each have a charge averaged from the total destructive power of all the rounds together. IE: Historically your ammo is belted in a sequence of five rounds, three of which do 1pt of damage, one that does 2pts, and one doing 5pts. In game, each round instead does 2pts of damage.

The result is both good and bad. It means the rounds will all do more damage than the historically least destructive round, but at the same time is a disadvantage since you also lose the extra punch of the individual high-power rounds.

I THINK this applies to other weapons like the Browning M2. While historically the Deuce would be belted with varying mixes of ball and API depending on availability, theater (IIRC, API was more common in the Pacific due to the combustability of most Japanese aircraft) and preference (some squadrons in the PTO took it on themselves to belt a larger mix of API than was standard practice) I THINK our Browning does the average damage of X rounds of ball and Y rounds of API.

so what your saying is that in game the guns only have 1 bullet modeled (2 counting tracer, assuming they even modeled it differently) to an "average' damage figure...but does it imitate the ballistics of an ap round or does it simply explode on contact?  why not just give us three rounds ap api and he and for Luftwaffe Mine and then belt them accordingly....

Offline Saxman

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2010, 12:05:53 AM »
Because it would require more coding and be more complicated. It HAS been asked for before (personally, I'd love a varied ball/API loadout for the US .50cal) but apparently there is not enough gain for the effort of modeling more types of rounds per gun.

As for the ballistics of what we have, you'd have to ask some of the Luftwaffe Experten on that. All I know is that there's been tests done that do suggest subtle differences in the ballistics between standard and tracer rounds.
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Offline ozrocker

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2010, 06:52:00 AM »
IDK WW2 Standards but in the 80's-90's we placed the tracer/whatever every 6th round for the M2 50cal.


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Offline Saxman

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2010, 08:19:59 AM »
I think in WW2 it was every fifth, however there was a lot of individual preference involved, as well.
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2010, 08:46:33 AM »
IDK WW2 Standards but in the 80's-90's we placed the tracer/whatever every 6th round for the M2 50cal.


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Offline JOACH1M

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2010, 11:04:36 AM »
On what saxman said I would love to see An API round for American 50 cals!
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Offline milesobrian

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2010, 02:30:35 PM »
Because it would require more coding and be more complicated. It HAS been asked for before (personally, I'd love a varied ball/API loadout for the US .50cal) but apparently there is not enough gain for the effort of modeling more types of rounds per gun.

As for the ballistics of what we have, you'd have to ask some of the Luftwaffe Experten on that. All I know is that there's been tests done that do suggest subtle differences in the ballistics between standard and tracer rounds.

why wouldnt they do it ww2ol can.


Offline Saxman

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2010, 02:56:36 PM »
why wouldnt they do it ww2ol can.



This isn't WW2OL. :-P
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2010, 03:04:01 PM »
why wouldnt they do it ww2ol can.


They could, and it may happen in the future, they just don't see a big advantage out of it.

The one thing I don't want to see is players allowing to set up their own belt sequences.  We don't need everybody and his uncle setting up completely non-historical belts of 100% Minengeschoß rounds.
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Offline Die Hard

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2010, 03:24:04 PM »
Nothing non-historical about belts of 100% Minengeschoß rounds. In the Luftwaffe ammunition loadout was the pilot's prerogative. 100% Minengeschoß was quite common for the MK 108 for instance.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2010, 03:47:54 PM »
I've never seen anything that supports the MG151/20 ever carrying a full belt of Minengeschoß.  One in five rounds is what I understand was historical.

The MK108 is another story, and for all I know, AH is already 100% Minengeschoß rounds for the MK108.
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Offline milesobrian

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2010, 06:00:47 PM »
This isn't WW2OL. :-P
THANK GOD that game is a total joke....the only thing it has going for it is its historical accuracy,and its so called "simulation grade" software....


and apparently ww2ol is now going to cost $17.99, while at the same time asking their player base for donations...not to mention their devs suck at their chosen profession...

Offline milesobrian

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Re: Do the german mg 131s have HE rounds belted in?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2010, 06:02:19 PM »
They could, and it may happen in the future, they just don't see a big advantage out of it.

The one thing I don't want to see is players allowing to set up their own belt sequences.  We don't need everybody and his uncle setting up completely non-historical belts of 100% Minengeschoß rounds.

i dont want it for an advantage i just want it in the name of being historically accurate....im not like you people always trying to find out new and possible ways to game the game....