Author Topic: UK ISP AH'ers ??? (Read 940 times)

Defiance · « **on:** December 05, 2001, 05:48:00 PM »

Hiya's,
Posted here but if needed will post in net forum

Anyone using Demon or Claranet in conjunction with BT's Surftime ?

I am thinking Demon as 1st choice Clara close 2nd

Any input be much appreciated

Many Thanks

Have Fun

Def

btw: i have a 30day trial cd comin from demon

so i can at least try it free for a mth

Cyan · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2001, 06:37:00 PM »

Hello this is Cyan's friend from the UK.

I have several friends in the UK that have used Demon for several years and don't like it. I thought BT offered unlimited access and I know that NTL also offers unlimited access.

If you need any other options then I'm sure I can see what my other friends are using.

Hope this helps!

Defiance · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2001, 07:09:00 PM »

Hiya CY's friend

I am on BT's Anytime now.....
I was on Surftime + BTConnect business package
They gave BTConnect users/abusers a new 0808 # which is attrocious, You get 1min 10min 1hr etc random timeouts
From BB's i've read BT are trying to force moderate to heavy users off their ISP

I have got a 30day trial (free) cd comin from Demon tomorrow or friday
Now this needs Surftime (i re-applied for surf earlier, As when BT took away surf+btconnect (molded surf+btconnect into what's now called BT Anytime package) i needed to cancel surtime) hope that makes sense

Well with Surftime i have many an isp to choose from except 99% of them don't like 40hrs + usage a week, So i narrowed it down to Demon/Claranet
I will try the 30day Demon trial n see how it goes
If you can ask around for other good uk isp's (surftime or not) it would be much appreciated

Many Thanks

Have Fun

Def

214thCavalier · « **Reply #3 on:** December 05, 2001, 07:39:00 PM »

Ok i have Demon and Nildram surftime with Home Highway ISDN connection.

Demon do not implement a timeout of any sort unless your computer is inactive but if you wish you can even configure that to be disabled.
However i only use it as my backup connection for AH because it has higher pings and sometimes horrific packet loss to AH, it is normal for Demon to have packet loss to AH.
I think they get to AH in about 13 hops which is pretty good from UK but as they route with sprintlink its a crap connection.

I play AH using Nildram it is very rare to see any packet loss to AH with Nildram, and pings are about 150 ms.
Tonight the route was 20 hops and pinging 160 ms more importantly not any packet loss enroute at all.

For gaming connects to AH Demon is not in the same class as Nildram.
Unfortunately though Nildram do have a 2 hour cutoff, but at least its 2 hours to the second and can be relied and allowed for.

-lynx- · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2001, 03:02:00 AM »

Blah-blah-blah high speed connections... OK if your exchange enabled. I pre-registered when the BT plonkers announced ADSL in May 2000 (yes - 2000!). My exchange has still not been brought into the 21st century

. No cable in town either.

I got suckered into this Surftime malarky but am straggling to find an ISP with decent terms/connection. As far as I know neither Clara nor Nildram have Surftime packages??? I used to be with Demon ~5-7 years ago, it was not particularly nice. And according to the Internet magazine they are at the bottom of the league table still. Pain in the a**e for technologically disatvantaged areas

Cavalier1 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 06, 2001, 04:08:00 AM »

Yup its me slightly diff name as on the road but to get to the point, Nildram do have a surftime option and I use it for AH play.
It is listed on there homepages but not as well as it could be

Well worth paying for IMHO, just remember they do have a 2 hour cutoff but at least its accurate to the second so you can plan for it.

Defiance · « **Reply #6 on:** December 06, 2001, 08:13:00 AM »

Hiya's,
Lynx i know how ya feel
I have no cable or adsl (BT stopped ALL adsl rollout sometime ago

)
May look into nildram

No demo demon disc today

but should be here tomorrow
I live in Prestatyn (press what in ?? lol)
So i am hoping as with all other isp's i have tried n got booted from for abusing their 24/7 services that pings and contention for my area are low

On the Demon site they do an Always-On 56k deal for £100 a mth, No cutoffs whatsoever and if i read right contention of 5 to 1 or better, Damn for a bit more ya can get 1 to 1 contention on a line lease

Many Thanks and will let ya know Demon pings asap i get my sweaty mits on their trial disc

Have Fun

Def

-lynx- · « **Reply #7 on:** December 06, 2001, 10:12:00 AM »

Jeepers Defiance out here in the sticks we didn't have a chance to get it anyway

BTW, I signed up with Demon last weekend- you get a month free trial anyway - just call them after if you don't want to continue with them.

Anyway - Cavalier if Nildram don't live up to your promises I'll come to Aylesbury to haunt you - it's just cost me £35 quid for 3 months and it had better be good

Defiance · « **Reply #8 on:** December 06, 2001, 10:21:00 AM »

Yo Lynx,
What pings/connections you getting with demon ??
My BT pings at 220-240 conx at 46k to 48k but boots are anyway from 1min to 1hr +

Hence a new isp hunt lol

214thCavalier · « **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2001, 01:51:00 PM »

OK here it comes traceroutes from Demon and Nildram,

Target Name: tpl.hitechcreations.com
IP: 216.234.247.240

1 71 ms 67 ms 70 ms 73 ms gyle-du-95.access.demon.net [194.159.254.95]
2 83 ms 73 ms 76 ms 73 ms tele-core-1-fxp3.router.demon.net [194.159.254.100]
3 82 ms 72 ms 81 ms 72 ms tele-backbone-1-ge020.router.demon.net [194.159.252.54]
4 75 ms 83 ms 74 ms 78 ms tele-border-12-e36.router.demon.net [194.159.36.234]
5 80 ms 82 ms * 82 ms sl-gw10-lon-3-0.sprintlink.net [213.206.130.81]
6 79 ms 75 ms 78 ms 81 ms sl-bb21-lon-8-0.sprintlink.net [213.206.128.45]
7 150 ms 152 ms 155 ms 152 ms sl-bb20-msq-10-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.19.69]
8 155 ms 144 ms * 150 ms sl-bb21-msq-15-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.9.110]
9 161 ms 156 ms 159 ms 161 ms sl-bb22-rly-15-3.sprintlink.net [144.232.19.98]
10 165 ms 179 ms 164 ms 166 ms sl-bb21-atl-10-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.8.126]
11 188 ms 190 ms 187 ms 189 ms sl-bb20-fw-10-1.sprintlink.net [144.232.18.214]
12 181 ms 183 ms 180 ms 182 ms sl-gw20-fw-8-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.11.126]
13 185 ms 188 ms 185 ms 463 ms sl-internap-81-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.194.34]
14 184 ms 187 ms 183 ms 186 ms border3.ge4-1-bbnet2.ext1.dal.pnap.net [216.52.191.83]
15 189 ms 186 ms 188 ms 191 ms theplanet-2.border3.003.dal.pnap.net [216.52.189.222]
16 185 ms 201 ms 184 ms 194 ms tpl.hitechcreations.com [216.234.247.240]

At each of the asterisks shown i was seeing 25% packet loss and note the highest ping of 463ms as i have said previously Demon route through sprintlink the worst choice possible for gaming, Skuzzy has said b4 they frequently oversell there bandwidth and its normal to see frequent packet loss.
Having used Demon for many years i can assure you its not good for gaming any longer.

Another post from Demon a few minutes later,

Target Name: tpl.hitechcreations.com
IP: 216.234.247.240

1 63 ms 72 ms 69 ms 65 ms gyle-du-95.access.demon.net [194.159.254.95]
2 80 ms 76 ms 80 ms 82 ms tele-core-1-fxp3.router.demon.net [194.159.254.100]
3 74 ms 76 ms 79 ms 75 ms tele-backbone-1-ge020.router.demon.net [194.159.252.54]
4 79 ms 80 ms 72 ms 80 ms tele-border-12-e36.router.demon.net [194.159.36.234]
5 78 ms * * 79 ms sl-gw10-lon-3-0.sprintlink.net [213.206.130.81]
6 84 ms 78 ms 82 ms 72 ms sl-bb21-lon-8-0.sprintlink.net [213.206.128.45]
7 148 ms 143 ms 147 ms * sl-bb20-msq-10-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.19.69]
8 153 ms 148 ms 152 ms 160 ms sl-bb21-msq-15-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.9.110]
9 152 ms 153 ms 151 ms 153 ms sl-bb22-rly-15-3.sprintlink.net [144.232.19.98]
10 169 ms 170 ms 162 ms 164 ms sl-bb21-atl-10-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.8.126]
11 191 ms 181 ms 185 ms 181 ms sl-bb20-fw-10-1.sprintlink.net [144.232.18.214]
12 184 ms 187 ms 184 ms 180 ms sl-gw20-fw-8-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.11.126]
13 183 ms 180 ms 183 ms 185 ms sl-internap-81-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.194.34]
14 188 ms * 188 ms 190 ms border3.ge4-1-bbnet2.ext1.dal.pnap.net [216.52.191.83]
15 187 ms 183 ms 187 ms 183 ms theplanet-2.border3.003.dal.pnap.net [216.52.189.222]
16 196 ms 192 ms 183 ms 198 ms tpl.hitechcreations.com [216.234.247.240]

2 Hops showing 25% packet loss and 1 showing 50% packet loss, if i have not convinced you by now then i am afraid theres no hope for you at all

Btw these are typical results although rarely you do get a useable connect.

Now to Nildram,

Target Name: tpl.hitechcreations.com
IP: 216.234.247.240

1 42 ms 41 ms 41 ms 39 ms 59 ms 42 ms 40 ms 41 ms surfport-gw.nildram.net [195.112.5.249]
2 44 ms 38 ms 38 ms 46 ms 48 ms 43 ms 39 ms 46 ms lon1-10.nildram.net [195.149.20.105]
3 42 ms 40 ms 48 ms 42 ms 42 ms 38 ms 47 ms 42 ms ge-0-2-0.r01.londen02.uk.bb.verio.net [217.79.161.10]
4 112 ms 110 ms 113 ms 109 ms 109 ms 113 ms 112 ms 110 ms p4-1-0-0.r02.nycmny01.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.4.181]
5 109 ms 113 ms 108 ms 119 ms 109 ms 117 ms 112 ms 109 ms p4-4-0-0.r04.nycmny01.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.5.11]
6 116 ms 114 ms 110 ms 110 ms 116 ms 110 ms 116 ms 113 ms p16-4-0-0.r01.nwrknj01.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.5.12]
7 110 ms 109 ms 113 ms 110 ms 111 ms 114 ms 115 ms 112 ms p4-2-1-0.r01.nycmny06.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.4.210]
8 117 ms 112 ms 109 ms 112 ms 110 ms 110 ms 112 ms 110 ms p4-7-0-0.r00.nycmny06.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.4.192]
9 112 ms 111 ms 113 ms 112 ms 113 ms 114 ms 114 ms 111 ms p4-0-1.r01.phlapa01.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.3.125]
10 121 ms 113 ms 113 ms 120 ms 118 ms 116 ms 113 ms 113 ms p4-1-0-0.r00.phlapa01.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.3.153]
11 118 ms 119 ms 121 ms 122 ms 118 ms 120 ms 121 ms 116 ms p4-6-0-0.r00.stngva01.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.3.105]
12 157 ms 151 ms 150 ms 156 ms 153 ms 155 ms 149 ms 150 ms p16-3-0-0.r01.crtntx01.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.5.34]
13 155 ms 149 ms 148 ms 149 ms 151 ms 153 ms 152 ms 149 ms p16-2-0-0.r01.dllstx01.us.bb.verio.net [129.250.5.36]
14 150 ms 154 ms 149 ms 148 ms 157 ms 155 ms 150 ms 156 ms ge-1-0-0.a10.dllstx01.us.ra.verio.net [129.250.28.164]
15 149 ms 150 ms 150 ms 152 ms 151 ms 150 ms 155 ms 150 ms fa-5-1-0.a09.dllstx01.us.ra.verio.net [129.250.31.61]
16 152 ms 150 ms 150 ms 151 ms 154 ms 153 ms 151 ms 151 ms d3-0-0-0.a09.dllstx01.us.ce.verio.net [157.238.226.186]
17 149 ms 154 ms 154 ms 171 ms 152 ms 151 ms 150 ms 152 ms border3.ge4-1-bbnet2.ext1.dal.pnap.net [216.52.191.83]
18 151 ms 155 ms 152 ms 163 ms 171 ms 159 ms 150 ms 157 ms theplanet-2.border3.003.dal.pnap.net [216.52.189.222]
19 156 ms 158 ms 155 ms 157 ms 158 ms 154 ms 163 ms 157 ms tpl.hitechcreations.com [216.234.247.240]

OK much better note i took 8 samples with Nildram as opposed to 4 with Demon.

Now Nildram cover the route in 19 hops opposed to Demon making it in 16 but Nildram are approx 40 ms faster to AH and not 1 instant of packet loss.

Nildram win for me, but as always somebody may know of a better ISP.

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: 214thCavalier ]

214thCavalier · « **Reply #10 on:** December 06, 2001, 01:59:00 PM »

Just a thought defiance when i had a 56k modem for gaming i used to get similar problems of boots at various times, after much digging i heard from several people that as a lot of the nets routers are made by 3com that NOTHING is as compatible as a genuine 3com modem.
Wallet in hand i went out and purchased a retail 3com modem (boy that hurt as usually get trade white box stuff) well it was the best money i spent in a long time.
I NEVER suffered another random boot.
YMMV but it worked for me.

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: 214thCavalier ]

Defiance · « **Reply #11 on:** December 06, 2001, 03:41:00 PM »

Hiya,
Thanks for the info and traces
Guess if demon trial pings are bad that will scupper that for an isp

Gonna look into nildram if demon's no good for gaming
Just waiting for the trial disc hopefully it should be here in the morning

Many Thanks

Have Fun

Def

-lynx- · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2001, 05:24:00 AM »

I didn't do a trace route but on staright d/load speeds on Sunday evening the following occured:

Connect to Nildram - max d/load speed 2.9K/sec; Pause d/load, disconnect, dial-up Demon, resume - d/load speed goes up to 3.7K/sec; pause again, disconnect, dial-up (ahem!) OneTel - 5.5K straight up... Finished d/load at an average 5.9K/sec...

I'm not sure what the packet loss would be with OneTel or how they route their connects but boy, are they faster for downloads than all this Surftime crowd or what? And still at 1p/min inclusive of VAT 24/7... OTOH, according to the Internet mag they are the worst ISP in the country...

Defiance · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2001, 08:03:00 AM »

Hiya,
Well i got the cd-rom trial disc this morning

I installed it all and gave card info for billing after the trial in case i wanted to carry on using the service

But on the subscribe/authorise part i got an invalid password, No biggy but it persisted, I then called the usual 0845 number for assistance but got an innept lady (no offense gals) she then bounced me to another department and they then bounced me to another which then gave me a free 0800 number for assistance
Well knowing the problem (i simply needed to use signup as the password) i feel i aint gonna signup with a company that can't even sort a basic problem out, I think i will give demon a miss until my area is in the Claranet catchement zone (jan i think)

Still subbed to "surftime" so anymore surftime isp's just lemme know

NOT BT's own deal or Freeserves though

Many Thanks

Have Fun

Def

Ohh well back to a decent UK ISP hunt !! lmao yeah i know that's "Mission Impossible"

Skuzzy · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2001, 12:47:00 PM »

So Defiance,...ya finally gave up finding someone to adopt ya, or marry ya with a high speed access connection to the Internet

.