Author Topic: FW190-A8  (Read 9570 times)

Offline pervert

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #75 on: November 13, 2010, 05:42:33 PM »
Again, this is only my personal experience with this ride, and I am far from an expert pilot. The A8 is not to everyone's liking, but I like to fly it, and I think it's made me a better pilot in the process.

Muzzy I'd agree if it had at least one reasonable flight attribute to exploit, your going to say it can roll but fact is roll without top of the range power is useless, its not quick doesn't climb well, doesn't turn well, and has tricky handling. The only thing it really has going for it is an awesome guns package getting it to point in a direction other than a HO is the problem.

Removing practically all the attributes needed to fight and believing that over time something that is set in stone will magically change with practice and that you'll be a better pilot for it is banging your head against a brick wall. If you jumped into an A5 and done better its no surprise, its because it has better flight characteristics than the A8 but that hasn't made you better.

I actually done a lot of testing with the A8 and all the 190s and the D9 was the only one that could truly dogfight against a varied planeset and a decent opponent simply because it was faster than the others. In fact the A5 F8 A8 all struggled against even planes slower than them.

Offline IrishOne

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #76 on: November 13, 2010, 08:16:32 PM »
In fact the A5 F8 A8 all struggled against even planes slower than them.

sure, given the other planes were flown by superior pilots.   i have no problems TnBing with most sticks in most planes in an A5.  if u do it right, even a spit16 or a N1K will wind up in the tower wondering how the eff did that 190 just outturn me?  it didn't.  it outrolled you and outflew you.  just like any plane, if the A series 190s are flown to strength (no, not just boom once and run) I.E. phenomenal roll rate, awesome guns, they can be as unbeatable as any other plane.   Keep practicing Muzzy, it will come.  Not as fast as if you were flying a Spit or a N1K all the time, but rest assured, it will come.
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Offline Ardy123

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #77 on: November 13, 2010, 09:18:57 PM »
I've been flying the A5 & A8 more than usual, and I find that unless I start out with an e adv, and I'm able to keep it, I can't win. There are exceptions where I have been able to reverse people and kill them, but all too often if they are decent, they will lag and I just can't make it work like I can in other rides :(

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Offline Muzzy

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #78 on: November 13, 2010, 11:58:31 PM »
Muzzy I'd agree if it had at least one reasonable flight attribute to exploit, your going to say it can roll but fact is roll without top of the range power is useless, its not quick doesn't climb well, doesn't turn well, and has tricky handling. The only thing it really has going for it is an awesome guns package getting it to point in a direction other than a HO is the problem.

Removing practically all the attributes needed to fight and believing that over time something that is set in stone will magically change with practice and that you'll be a better pilot for it is banging your head against a brick wall. If you jumped into an A5 and done better its no surprise, its because it has better flight characteristics than the A8 but that hasn't made you better.

I actually done a lot of testing with the A8 and all the 190s and the D9 was the only one that could truly dogfight against a varied planeset and a decent opponent simply because it was faster than the others. In fact the A5 F8 A8 all struggled against even planes slower than them.

Again, this is only my experience with the A8, and despite its faults I do like to fly it under certain circumstances. It is certainly not a plane you want to dogfight in but it does have good handling at mid-high speeds.  I wouldn't recommend it for everyone, I just know it works for me.


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Offline W7LPNRICK

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #79 on: November 14, 2010, 02:09:28 AM »
I love it for de-acking V bases & ports. Cleaned up a port the other day w/ the 12 rockets while manned guns & wirbles shooting at me & never a hit on me. It's a little weird getting used to firing those 12 rockets, 2 on the left then 2 on the right. It's enough to make you miss a GV and hit both sides of it but a near miss still takes out the auto/soft guns.... .  :D  :old:
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 02:48:05 AM by W7LPNRICK »
WildWzl
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Offline W7LPNRICK

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #80 on: November 14, 2010, 02:41:22 AM »
I like the A8 package with those 20's. However, ingame every time I see a A8 I can expect a hoe then run. Rarely do I ever see a pilot fly the bird...
It was made to be a bomber killer (lil monsters') is what I call them.. :salute
[/center](Image removed from quote.)[/center]

absolutely beautiful! nice photo. Never seen a fully restored 190. Thanx  :old: :salute (the other one)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 02:49:20 AM by W7LPNRICK »
WildWzl
Ft Bragg Jump School-USAF Kunsan AB, Korea- Clark AB P.I.- Korat, Thailand-Tinker AFB Ok.- Mtn Home AFB Idaho
F-86's, F-4D, F-4G, F-5E Tiger II, C-130, UH-1N (Twin Engine Hueys) O-2's. E3A awacs, F-111, FB-111, EF-111,

Offline pervert

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #81 on: November 14, 2010, 06:30:16 AM »
sure, given the other planes were flown by superior pilots.   i have no problems TnBing with most sticks in most planes in an A5.  if u do it right, even a spit16 or a N1K will wind up in the tower wondering how the eff did that 190 just outturn me?  it didn't.  it outrolled you and outflew you.  just like any plane, if the A series 190s are flown to strength (no, not just boom once and run) I.E. phenomenal roll rate, awesome guns, they can be as unbeatable as any other plane.   Keep practicing Muzzy, it will come.  Not as fast as if you were flying a Spit or a N1K all the time, but rest assured, it will come.

If all things were equal alt E etc and I was able to duplicate you into Irishone A and Irishone B (bear with me lol) one in say a Spit 9 and one in a 190A5 or an A8, who do you think would win?

Again if you have any films or want to go make one of you in an A8 doing what you described in your above post by all means post it and let us have a look at it.

sure, given the other planes were flown by superior pilots.   i have no problems TnBing with most sticks in most planes in an A5.  if u do it right, even a spit16 or a N1K will wind up in the tower wondering how the eff did that 190 just outturn me?

The style of fight used in the tests was not the convential one, its the one that works for the D9 and is as I found out relant on power. If your beating a guy in a spit16 and a N1K by out turning them you have an energy or positinal advantage or your opponent didn't know what he was doing. Again what I'm interested in is taking away all the reasons for winning by chance or circumstance a straight up win if you like.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 06:51:09 AM by pervert »

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #82 on: November 14, 2010, 08:54:12 AM »
Again what I'm interested in is taking away all the reasons for winning by chance or circumstance ...

Why?  That exists in the MA and I'd venture is a reason most of us play online rather than against offline AI.  If you're good enough to dictate a fight against a majority of players in a double inferior aircraft why not?

BTW, went out to film Friday night but got killed trying to scissor a Hog then flew base defense in the A8 in a multi plane engagement, never climbing above 10K between waves of incoming attackers.  Got a kill or two I think but forgot to film.  :frown:  I disagree with Muzzy; The A8 is a good preditor in a multi plane environment (multiples on both sides... base defense or furball).
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Offline killnu

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #83 on: November 14, 2010, 08:57:45 AM »
perv,
you will never run into "equal" pilots in game.  I have out flown my share of "better" planes while in the lowly A8...and I so thoroughly enjoy it.  It was one of the last way I found enjoyment in game. 

It has never been about the better plane, its about the better pilot. 

I will say, youj can take a noob pilot, put him in a "better" plane and he will have a chance against most pilots in a mediocre to lower plane. 
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Offline Muzzy

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #84 on: November 14, 2010, 11:28:29 AM »
Why?  That exists in the MA and I'd venture is a reason most of us play online rather than against offline AI.  If you're good enough to dictate a fight against a majority of players in a double inferior aircraft why not?

BTW, went out to film Friday night but got killed trying to scissor a Hog then flew base defense in the A8 in a multi plane engagement, never climbing above 10K between waves of incoming attackers.  Got a kill or two I think but forgot to film.  :frown:  I disagree with Muzzy; The A8 is a good preditor in a multi plane environment (multiples on both sides... base defense or furball).

Well yeah, I prefer to fly the A8 in a multi-plane environment, I just think it's easier to build up alt before going in and you can't always do that in a base defense situation, although I have had good runs upping in such situations.  It's 1v1 where I have trouble in the A8.


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Wng Cdr, No. 2 Tactical Bomber Group, RAF, "Today's Target" Scenario. "You maydie, but you will not be bored!"

Offline pervert

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #85 on: November 14, 2010, 12:39:23 PM »
perv,
you will never run into "equal" pilots in game.  I have out flown my share of "better" planes while in the lowly A8...and I so thoroughly enjoy it.  It was one of the last way I found enjoyment in game. 

It has never been about the better plane, its about the better pilot. 

I will say, youj can take a noob pilot, put him in a "better" plane and he will have a chance against most pilots in a mediocre to lower plane. 

None of the above is in dispute, what is in dispute us what you can and can't do in certain aircraft when you strip away random circumstance, the way it is perceived by those flying it and the way it is later recounted on the BBS.

Offline STEELE

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #86 on: November 14, 2010, 01:13:38 PM »
Part of the deal is the british test ofg the 190A was actually a much heavier F model. Also with correctly adjusted ailron tabs the 190 would not wingtip snapstall like ours do. Real 190A8 had about a foot longer wingspan than the A5 to keep wingloading almost exactly the same as A5 (the wing was also lightened) will post source.(Fw190 book) later. So point being the A8 should turn almost exactly same as the A5, with 2 cannons.do we have the correct longer wingspan on ours? Haven't been able to spawn both Antons on runway to check as of yet. (Dave Grisham was the author of the book perhaps? Ill double check later
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Offline pervert

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #87 on: November 14, 2010, 01:17:07 PM »
Why?  That exists in the MA and I'd venture is a reason most of us play online rather than against offline AI.  If you're good enough to dictate a fight against a majority of players in a double inferior aircraft why not?

BTW, went out to film Friday night but got killed trying to scissor a Hog then flew base defense in the A8 in a multi plane engagement, never climbing above 10K between waves of incoming attackers.  Got a kill or two I think but forgot to film.  :frown:  I disagree with Muzzy; The A8 is a good preditor in a multi plane environment (multiples on both sides... base defense or furball).

I agree the random(ish) nature of the MA is the reason why most play in the MA. This is starting to get a little sketchy with regards to the original argument and moving into a different arena entirely.

My orginal statement which kicked it off.

"For the MA the A8 can't compete in a real fight except to HO, I've seen guys attempting to dogfight in them but once they lost the ability to turn nose on and HO (which happens very quickly) the A8 is screwed, but it never was a dogfighter to begin with."


A real fight ok I'll give a bit of lee way, a realstic scernario if you will, you've been furballing over a base all friendlys have died but you are at an alt and speed were the remaining cons cannot follow you and give up the chase as you head home. On the way home in your A8 you see a dot co alt, the plane comes into icon and is a Spit 9 piloted by a competent player. How do you think the fight will go down? Given that your greatest strength is your guns and your chances of victory lay in shooting him head on? As diverse as the MA is there will always be a time when you have to actually fight with no help from chance a real fight.


Offline FLOTSOM

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #88 on: November 14, 2010, 01:57:21 PM »
pervert what your asking for is virtually impossible a scenario to create.

even in the DA you cant get both planes and pilots in absolute 0 advantage environment at the moment of the merge. one will always be that little bit faster or that little bit better angled or the alt of the merge will be more fortuitous for one than the other etc etc.

you will never be able to remove random moments of chance, and in reality i think the first sign of a great pilot is his ability to recognize and then exploit that moment of randomness to create his own advantage.

here is an example of my theory. now i am not saying i am great, or even good, what i am saying is that the random creation of circumstances that will benefit one player over the other cannot be discounted.

i have just returned to base, my K4 was damaged on the left wing and tail, both the aileron and the flap on my left wing were destroyed and my rudder was inoperable. (the damage is the random in this story).

as i am low and slow heading into the run way a 262 appears at the other end of it booming towards me. he is forward and slightly to my left side. my first thought was "SH*T i am dead"! the 262 rudders and fires! i watch his 30mm bundles of love pass just over and slightly to the left of my canopy. as i watch the trajectory of his tracers a strange thought hits me,

on impulse i tap the button and drop my flaps, i let go of my stick so as to not jerk the nose of my plane and with my precision trigger located on my throttle i tap off a quick burst of rounds. because my left flap was damaged the dropping of my flaps accomplished lifting my nose slightly and twisting it to the left, my rounds smashed into his left motor and wing as we passed each other i watched the explosion and then smoke billowing out of his left jet.

an instant later i get the message "You have shot down "so and so"". i manage to circle the field and then land.

now 999 times out of 1000 i would have died in that engagement, had i attempted any other evasive type of maneuver being that low and that slow and with that much damage, i would likely have augured in. but random circumstance and an impulse that told me to try allowed me to take the advantage away from the 262 and to monopolize on it.

so back to my point, 0 random circumstance IS an absolute part of the game and its the ability of the better pilots to not only create it but to exploit it.

I have watched IrishOne fly the A5, engage multiple cons and come out victorious by his skill at recognizing and exploiting the random circumstances that the fluidity of this game creates.

Exploitation of randomness is the ultimate ACM. it is the one skill that will serve you better in the end than any built in modeling of any aircraft.

POOP~!!!!!!!! you posted when i did!!

no matter my post still holds true even in the example you gave. a good pilot will create his own random acts of chance by baiting and maneuvering the other pilot into a place that will allow for exploitation of an angle or speed or one of the many other circumstances that will allow one to prevail against another.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 02:03:51 PM by FLOTSOM »
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Offline pervert

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Re: FW190-A8
« Reply #89 on: November 14, 2010, 02:08:12 PM »
POOP~!!!!!!!! you posted when i did!!

 :rofl that sucks, you must type as slowly as I do!  :P I'll reply to this later outta time amo and to slow a typer!!  :D