Author Topic: Need help identifying this insignia  (Read 760 times)

Offline Tupac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5056
Need help identifying this insignia
« on: October 31, 2010, 09:55:45 PM »
The story goes that this piece of canvas came off of Georges Guynemers airplane in ww1, I have looked at guynemers insignia and dont think it is the same one.

Could it be from a plane in the same squadron? Any help would be appreciated.

Tupac





"It was once believed that an infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of keyboards, would eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare. However, with the advent of Internet messageboards we now know this is not the case."

Offline gunnss

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 632
      • https://grantvillegazette.com/wp/lastname-firstname/evans-kevin-h/
Re: Need help identifying this insignia
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2010, 10:57:04 PM »
try this site and look for this; Escadre de Chasse 5
Groupe de Chasse I/5
'Champagne'


http://www.michael-reimer.com/CFS2/CFS2_Profiles/MTO_AXIS_FRANCE-VICHY.html


Regards,
Kevin
5,486 HP 110 MPH @500 tons
My other "ride"
http://nmslrhs.org/Photos/photos.php
Alt History, The butterfly made me do it.....
https://grantvillegazette.com/wp/lastname-firstname/evans-kevin-h/

Offline texasmom

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6078
Re: Need help identifying this insignia
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2010, 10:58:48 PM »
.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 11:02:05 PM by texasmom »
<S> Easy8
<S> Mac

Offline Tupac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5056
Re: Need help identifying this insignia
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2010, 11:05:51 PM »
try this site and look for this; Escadre de Chasse 5
Groupe de Chasse I/5
'Champagne'


http://www.michael-reimer.com/CFS2/CFS2_Profiles/MTO_AXIS_FRANCE-VICHY.html


Regards,
Kevin


Kevin, Thank you for your link. I have now linked this with guynemers squadron (Escadrille MS.3) but am looking for any more specific information.

Tupac
"It was once believed that an infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of keyboards, would eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare. However, with the advent of Internet messageboards we now know this is not the case."

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5420
      • http://home.CFL.rr.com/rauns/menu.htm
Re: Need help identifying this insignia
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 10:04:13 AM »
They still are active BTW.
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
------------------------

Offline JHerne

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 659
Re: Need help identifying this insignia
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 10:58:13 AM »
Tupac, you own this piece of fabric???

Skunkworks AvA Researcher and
Primary Cause of Angst

Offline Tupac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5056
Re: Need help identifying this insignia
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2010, 11:00:07 AM »
Tupac, you own this piece of fabric???



No, I posted this here for a friend who was looking to find out who's it was.

Do you know anything about it?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 11:02:00 AM by Tupac »
"It was once believed that an infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of keyboards, would eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare. However, with the advent of Internet messageboards we now know this is not the case."

Offline JHerne

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 659
Re: Need help identifying this insignia
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2010, 11:15:11 AM »
Yea, I'm doing some research for you.

J
Skunkworks AvA Researcher and
Primary Cause of Angst

Offline zack1234

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13213
Re: Need help identifying this insignia
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2010, 11:19:03 AM »
nice carpet :old:
There are no pies stored in this plane overnight

                          
The GFC
Pipz lived in the Wilderness near Ontario

Offline Tupac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5056
Re: Need help identifying this insignia
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2010, 11:19:11 AM »
I'll give you guys the whole story behind this piece of canvas (as far as I know)

This was owned by one Vernon Burge, the first enlisted aviator in the army air corp, when he passed away, this went to his grandson Robert Reeves. They always told him that this came off of Guynemers plane.

Robert's sister is my moms best friend, and she knew I had a huge interest in aviation, but i couldnt find any pictures of Guynemers last plane in any of my books. She sent me a picture, and I posted it here.


edit: thanks JHerne.
"It was once believed that an infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of keyboards, would eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare. However, with the advent of Internet messageboards we now know this is not the case."

Offline Tac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4085
Re: Need help identifying this insignia
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2010, 12:08:17 PM »
Wikipedia states:

Death
Georges Guynemer in 1917

Guynemer failed to return from a combat mission on 11 September 1917. The previous week had been one of mechanical ills, in both his assigned aircraft and the ones he borrowed. At 08:30, with rookie pilot Jean Bozon-Verduraz, Guynemer took off in his Spad XIII S.504 n°2. His mission was to patrol the Langemark area. At 09:25, near Poelkapelle, Guynemer sighted a lone Rumpler, a German observation plane, and dived towards it. Bozon-Verduraz saw several Fokkers above him, and by the time he had shaken them off, his leader was nowhere in sight, so he returned alone. Guynemer never came back.[6][7]


Google is your friend.







Seeing that those pics are of the plane he died in, the one in your pic is not from his place. There is no white stripe crossing the bird diagonally and the bird in your pic has its wings flapping up, the one on his Spad 12 and 13 had wings flapping down.


Also,

"It was not until 1916, under the pressure of the Great War in which aircraft numbers grew rapidly, that the association between the emblem and the unit became official. So that aircrews should be able to recognise other members of their own flight, in order to regroup after dispersal during fighting, the command of the Somme Combat Group, of which flight.3 was then a part, ordered that clear symbols be painted on aircraft. By this time, the flights had been grouped into squadrons. The squadron's commanding officer, Commandant Brocard chose to make reference to the Alsatian storks by using a white stork with lowered wings as the emblem on the Nieuports  of no. 3 flight. He then ordered the other flights of the squadron to choose emblems using storks in other postures"

Guynemer was part of No. 3 flight which had its wings below the body. Official unit is Spa 3.

This piece of canvas your friend has belongs to Spa 103 which was the 2nd flight of the squadron

Here's a pic of Rene's Fonck's plane, of Spa 103:



That stork matches your canvas.
 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 01:46:00 PM by Tac »

Offline kilo2

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3445
Re: Need help identifying this insignia
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2010, 01:41:10 PM »


Rene Fonck next to his plane.
 :rofl

5 mins too late tac

« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 01:50:21 PM by kilo2 »
X.O. Kommando Nowotny
FlyKommando.com

"Never abandon the possibility of attack."

Offline Tac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4085
Re: Need help identifying this insignia
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2010, 01:53:51 PM »

Offline Tupac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5056
Re: Need help identifying this insignia
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2010, 03:17:28 PM »
Thanks so much guys!
"It was once believed that an infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of keyboards, would eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare. However, with the advent of Internet messageboards we now know this is not the case."