Plane can't fly without Vertical Stab

[Ghastly]

  I would think that without a vert stab you would be like a leaf in the wind.

I'm a leaf in the wind... watch me soar!

(Sorry, couldn't resist the temptation!)

[Swoops]

This should help clear up a few questions you have about flying without a vertical stab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWeLJHaXd8M

As a pilot in the airline industry I have had many experiences to review many incidents and accidents that have resulted in the loss of
a flight control surface. Size of the surface, its position, and its overall function in the control of the aircraft are factors contributing
to surviving such an event.  While loss of the rudder itself will present a control problem a pilot can more positively affect this outcome by
selecting a runway that is more aligned with the wind component.  In Aces High II wind usually never represents any challenge since
it is always set to 0 unless your in an special events arena.  There is a slight change in the center of gravity (CG) of the aircraft so in
extreme cases with an unusually disproportionate rudder on an aircraft with a small CG envelope the aircraft may run out of cg limits.  This
condition would be highly aggravated with the loss of the entire stabilizer since a much more proportionate chunk of the aircraft had
been lost.  Before you would even need to worry about the "CG" effects of a lost vertical stabilizer, you would need to consider its name
"stabilizer" as that is its primary function.  Keeping the fuselage of the aircraft aligned with the on coming relative wind in order to maintain
longitudinal stability.  I suppose this could be circumvented if the aircraft you happen to be flying had a fuselage itself that had enough flat
plate area represented in a side profile to keep the aircraft aligned with the relative wind, but due to the considerations of keeping aircraft "aerodynamically efficient," this seems a most improbable application of design.  The only other way to control a contraption without the use of
a vertical stabilizer would have to come with the use of "split-flap" type ailerons or a combination of "spoilerons" located at the tips of the wings
as used by the B-2 bomber by varying the amount of drag at the tips of the wings a flight computer can keep this aircraft in stable, coordinated flight.  One other method that could be considered would also be the use of "vectored thrust" to keep an aircraft longitudinally stable, a concept,
definitely nowhere to be found in AH II...strike that...unless you happen to be flying a "CLAW."

So after all this explanation my reply to your question would be, no it is not probable that you should be able to land after losing
your vertical stabilizer in AHII.

[Shuffler]

Several planes had to have enlarged stabs after initial test flights.

Both the  P-51 and P-47 had to have an additional section added in front of the stab when they changed to the bubble canopy. The reason was the raised section behind the cockpit was done away with for better vision. When they lost the so called raizer back it affected the lateral stability. This was fixed by adding the section in front of the stabs.

It can be seen in this photo in front of the stabilizer.....




If conditions were perfect one might get lucky and get the plane down. It is highly unlikely as any breeze or airpocket would upset the plane.

[Soulyss]

Not an engineer, and most of the aeronautical/FM discussions around here go right over my head but if I remember right one  the biggest problems with developing a "flying-wing" style aircraft, despite several attempts over the years was that they were all deemed to be too unstable.  Ultimately this was solved with current avionics and fly by wire controls in the B2.

[Yeager]

I have never landed any single vert stab ride in AH with the vert stab removed.  It is usually just a matter of between 5 and 15 seconds before the plane yaws out of control and augers.

I remember the Airbus A300 passenger jet (American Airlines #587) that lost its vert stab soon after take off and crashed with the loss of 260 souls on board and 5 lost on the ground.

It is easy for me to imagine that airplanes which lose the entire vert stab in flight are doomed 100% of the time.

[DrBone1]

  where is that Film of Spikes landing a 163 without a stab? I have done it many times Vinkman it is a harsh way of landing but if you are lucky you get the ditch 

[Vinkman]

This should help clear up a few questions you have about flying without a vertical stab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWeLJHaXd8M

As a pilot in the airline industry I have had many experiences to review many incidents and accidents that have resulted in the loss of
a flight control surface. Size of the surface, its position, and its overall function in the control of the aircraft are factors contributing
to surviving such an event.  While loss of the rudder itself will present a control problem a pilot can more positively affect this outcome by
selecting a runway that is more aligned with the wind component.  In Aces High II wind usually never represents any challenge since
it is always set to 0 unless your in an special events arena.  There is a slight change in the center of gravity (CG) of the aircraft so in
extreme cases with an unusually disproportionate rudder on an aircraft with a small CG envelope the aircraft may run out of cg limits.  This
condition would be highly aggravated with the loss of the entire stabilizer since a much more proportionate chunk of the aircraft had
been lost.  Before you would even need to worry about the "CG" effects of a lost vertical stabilizer, you would need to consider its name
"stabilizer" as that is its primary function.  Keeping the fuselage of the aircraft aligned with the on coming relative wind in order to maintain
longitudinal stability.  I suppose this could be circumvented if the aircraft you happen to be flying had a fuselage itself that had enough flat
plate area represented in a side profile to keep the aircraft aligned with the relative wind, but due to the considerations of keeping aircraft "aerodynamically efficient," this seems a most improbable application of design.  The only other way to control a contraption without the use of
a vertical stabilizer would have to come with the use of "split-flap" type ailerons or a combination of "spoilerons" located at the tips of the wings
as used by the B-2 bomber by varying the amount of drag at the tips of the wings a flight computer can keep this aircraft in stable, coordinated flight.  One other method that could be considered would also be the use of "vectored thrust" to keep an aircraft longitudinally stable, a concept,
definitely nowhere to be found in AH II...strike that...unless you happen to be flying a "CLAW."

So after all this explanation my reply to your question would be, no it is not probable that you should be able to land after losing
your vertical stabilizer in AHII.

The CG point is one I hadn't thought of. I wonder how far forward it shifts on some of these planes. As for the airliner, heavy winds were clearly a contributor, but aslo it is sadly clear the pilots did not know what had happened right up to the end. I wonder if they had known they had no rudder or stab if they might have been able to take a course of action that might have helped. that was a very sad circumstance. My heart when out ot them.

also thanks for the reply Swoops 

[MachFly]

I remember I collided with with an aircraft on Spit14, lost the V-stab. I cut my throttle to avoid the torque of messing everything up, my left wingtip became my nose and I used ailerons as elevators and elevators and ailerons. It was at about 4000ft AGL and I managed to bring it down safe, broke the main landing gear, prop, and left wingtip as it absorbed a lot of impact.
Unfortunately I don't have it recorded but I do have the pics of the wreckage I took after I got down, I'll see if I can find them.

However most of the time I lost my vertical stabilizer I did not survive.

[B4Buster]

Lost a stab on a mossie a few months back. Flew two sectors back to base with no problems. Turns were a bit un- coordinated is all. Other than that, it flew great. Think I filmed it.

[Ardy123]

I can't fly a a09k4 with the vert-stab missing. It slides all over the place and is virtually uncontrollable.

[SectorNine50]

Several planes had to have enlarged stabs after initial test flights.

Both the  P-51 and P-47 had to have an additional section added in front of the stab when they changed to the bubble canopy. The reason was the raised section behind the cockpit was done away with for better vision. When they lost the so called raizer back it affected the lateral stability. This was fixed by adding the section in front of the stabs.

It can be seen in this photo in front of the stabilizer.....

If conditions were perfect one might get lucky and get the plane down. It is highly unlikely as any breeze or airpocket would upset the plane.

I find that the Pony's have the worst directional stability of any plane in the game.  That helps and hurts in different situations.  Severely hurts when you lose your vert. stabilizer, which seemingly is the only thing on the damned plane keeping it from flying like a Frisbee.

Some planes do it better than others, I've noticed...  Which makes sense.  I'm sure having more than one engine would be helpful in a rudder-lacking situation.

EDIT:
I take that back.  The Camel has the worst directional stability in the game.

I also think it happens to be the most fun to fly...

Who knew flying sideways could be done so easily?

[shiv]

Can only spin down and crash if you lose the vert stab in an F4U.

[TeeArr]

Vinkman, Perhaps your time would be better spent practicing how NOT to get your Vertical Stabilizer shot off to begin with.  In combat, your fighter/bomber/whatever without a stab is pretty much toast unless you are incredibly lucky.
 Tee

[mechanic]

Lost a stab on a mossie a few months back. Flew two sectors back to base with no problems. Turns were a bit un- coordinated is all. Other than that, it flew great. Think I filmed it.

The vertical stab?   Surely you mean a horizontal stab?

Speaking from experience I have never managed to control a mossy with no vert stab, but I would love to see the film if ya did it!

[VonMessa]

Not an engineer, and most of the aeronautical/FM discussions around here go right over my head but if I remember right one  the biggest problems with developing a "flying-wing" style aircraft, despite several attempts over the years was that they were all deemed to be too unstable.  Ultimately this was solved with current avionics and fly by wire controls in the B2.

Funny how birds do not have one though, isn't it?