Different format the next time a poll happens

[Karnak]

Let me start with the fact that I am not at all unhappy with the outcome of the recent poll.  The only aircraft out of the initial eight that I would have been unhappy with was the A-26, and it lost.  All is good with that and I look forward to the B-29 as I would have looked forward to a Pe-2, Ki-45, Ki-43, Beaufighter, He111 or Me410.


The idea I had was instead of starting with a list of eight units, instead start with the names of a number of nations.  The winning nation then gets four units listed.  The top two of those get a final round and hence to the winner.  I think this might be a better system as it allows people to vote for a country's units even if they aren't knowledgeable about WWII history.  For example, your average player may have no idea what a Ki-43 is, yet think that Japan needs more stuff in the game, but presented with a bunch of things he doesn't know what they are, goes for the familiar, most likely American, for obvious reasons.

Example:

Round one:

Finland
France
Germany
Italy
Japan
Russia
United Kingdom
United States

Round two, Japanese victory:

H8K2
J2M3
Ki-43
Ki-45

Round three, H8K2, Ki-43 victory:

H8K2
Ki-43

Winner, H8K2, HTC groans and vows never to put a monster sized plane on a poll again.

[Jayhawk]

I think most people would select United States.  I think those who worry about gaps in the game's plane-set are a minority only vocal here on the BBS. 

How about pictures?

*Show the aircraft*
Name
Fighter/Bomber/Attack

[Lusche]

Wouldn't change much

Billy sees the countries. Billy can't think of any Russian or Japanese plane. But he knows about the B-29! B-29! THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!
Billy votes USA!

 

[Jayhawk]

We tend to forget those other countries sometimes.

[The Fugitive]

I think a picture of each with a brief description of each plane in the poll would be good. Most haven't a clue of what they are voting for ( much like most elections  ) With some information people would at least consider a plane they had never heard of before if even it was only going by looks 

[Wmaker]

We tend to forget those other countries sometimes.

(Image removed from quote.)

Nooooo?!

You sure about that??

[Wmaker]

The idea I had was instead of starting with a list of eight units, instead start with the names of a number of nations.  The winning nation then gets four units listed.  The top two of those get a final round and hence to the winner.  I think this might be a better system as it allows people to vote for a country's units even if they aren't knowledgeable about WWII history.  For example, your average player may have no idea what a Ki-43 is, yet think that Japan needs more stuff in the game, but presented with a bunch of things he doesn't know what they are, goes for the familiar, most likely American, for obvious reasons.

I'm strongly against this idea. The community is mostly American and most Americans will vote America no matter how bloated the American planeset gets. This way we would end up with HTC using their time making four American planes/units instead of one.

A-26
SBC
Catalina
PB2Y Coronado
P-63
P-61
A-36
C-46
PB4Y-2 Privateer

...and so on. Hopefully, it is long, long time before the next vote.

[FYB]

I'm strongly against this idea. The community is mostly American and most Americans will vote America no matter how bloated the American planeset gets. This way we would end up with HTC using their time making four American planes/units instead of one.

A-26
SBC
Catalina
PB2Y Coronado
P-63
P-61
A-36
C-46
PB4Y-2 Privateer

...and so on. Hopefully, it is long, long time before the next vote.

Completely agreed. If anything, they should have just put in foreign A/C for the vote.

[1701E]

We tend to forget those other countries sometimes.

(Image removed from quote.)

"Do you know there's other countries out there....?  Just checking!  Sometimes you have to go through a fair few channels to get anything....." -Izzard

[Karnak]

Completely agreed. If anything, they should have just put in foreign A/C for the vote.

This would be the only way to get a non-US aircraft out of a vote at this point.  If we didn't have any Spitfire, 109, 190 or Zero, those could probably pull out a win over a rare or obscure US aircraft, but as we have them....

The problem with doing it this way is that it is VERY heavy handed.

I did see people talking in 200 who wanted a Japanese or German or Russian aircraft, but had no idea what any of the aircraft on the list were, so they voted for the B-29 or A-26.  I do think it most likely that my suggested system would result in a choice of four American aircraft in round one, but how is that different than now?  Look at the round one and round two results from the recent poll.  #1 spot in round one was the B-29, #2 was the A-26.  In round two the Me410 only managed to edge the A-26 due to the number of votes it picked up from people who had previously voted for the Ki-43, Ki-45, Pe-2 and Beaufighter, sending the Me410 on to lose in a landslide against the B-29.  If the A-26 had been paired with any other American aircraft other than the B-29, say an SB2C instead, the final round would have been between two American aircraft, again.  The B-29 was so desired that it siphoned too many votes from the A-26 for the second place American aircraft to overcome the "something not American" crowd.

By taking actual planes off the list I was suggesting an attempt to remove the familiar as a vote draw.  I really don't think that many people are voting for US stuff because they are American and only want American stuff in the game.  I think many votes for American stuff are simply because they know what it is, at least to a degree.

The third option would be to have very potent aircraft on the vote, except for the American ones which are bottom of the barrel.  Something like:


H8K2 'Emily'
J2M5 Raiden 'Jack'
Ju188A-1
Me410
Meteor Mk III
G.55
TBD-1 Devastator
Tu-2

[JHerne]

Realistically, what's left in the American lineup as far as combat aircraft are concerned? The primary US aircraft that have been wished for are the B-29 and A-26.

So let's think about it for a minute...

Regardless of how effective they'd be in any of the arenas, hangar queens or not, the list is surprisingly small. These are off the top of my head...so work with me here...

B-29 (coming)
A-26 (short list)
SB2C (which is already obsolete by CV-killing P-47s)
PB4Y-2 (which is basically just another heavy bomber)
P-61 (which lacks a definitive role)
PBY (which again lacks a definitive role)
TBD
SBC
PV-1
PV-2
C-46
C-54

From  here, we get into obscure aircraft or variants of existing airframes, P-70, F-5, F-6. But even these lack definitive roles unless we get a night-fighting arena or the ability to make use of a recon or rescue aircraft.

The best idea we can come up with is to present a list of aircraft from all countries that can be considered 'must-have' gap-filling aircraft. Take for example, the Fiat G.55. Folks might say that we don't need another Italian fighter, but...the G.55 would be a step up from the 205 and would therefore bring Italian aircraft into parity with Allied aircraft for the average player.

The Ki-43 would be a nice addition, lightweight and maneuverable, but with serious handicaps in terms of firepower and pilot protection. We hear whines now about pilot wounds, imagine a Ki-43 in the LW arenas. The Ki-43 would fill a HUGE gap in the historical side of the game, AvA, FSO, etc.

I do heartily agree that there are deficiencies in the Russian planeset, especially in the attack aircraft and fighter areas, Yak-1, Yak-3, MiG-1, Mig-3, Tu-2, and Pe-8. Same can be said for the Italian plane set, G.55, Re.2005, Cr.42, Mc.200, Cant 1007, Br.42, SM.79, etc...

At this point, aside from some bombers (He-111, Do-17, Do-217, Ju-188, He-177) almost anything German that we add will be a novelty or lack a defined role. If we needed 40 troops to take a base then an Me-323 might not be a bad idea, but like anything else that's added, it's either uber or a huge target, so pick your poison.

As a group, instead of beatchin' at each other and flaming wishlist posts, perhaps we should establish a thread with a serious discussion of what's needed. The kind of thread that when read by someone from HTC, they actually get something worthwhile out of it instead of wasting their time talking about wanting nuclear submarines and space stations.

The problem with any thread like this - is that a few will contribute useful information, while others will bombard the thread with useless drivel that contributes nothing to the process. They jump on their particular aircraft bandwagon with total disregard to how the aircraft will operate in theatre. An He-111 will be great in AvA, FSO, etc., just like the Ki-43, but in the all-important LW arena they'll be chased down like goons by anyone with guns on board.

Truth be told, with the exception of a few missing fighters, Yak-3, Ki-44, J2M, G.55, etc., the list of aircraft that could operate in the LW arena (as long as LW continues to house the majority of players) is very small. There were a finite number of aircraft developed and built in that 7-year period. Eventually, we're going to run out of wishlist aircraft (I hope).

[Dichotomy]

 

[B4Buster]

I like the idea, Karnak. Unfortunately, I think it would only work in a perfect world. Snailman and Wmaker hit the nail on the head. The outcome of votes would be the same in the end.

[jimson]

How's about this format:

1. We have enough Hot Rod LW US planes.

2. The so-called "hangar queens" are only that in the LW arenas.

3. FSO, Snapshots, Scenarios and AvA regularly use non LW planes.

4. No more US planes until we have a full Japanese, German and Russian planeset.

5. See #1

From an historical scenario perspective here's the order of additions I would like to see, throwing in a few for the MA guys.

Round one: Ki43, He 111, Petlyakov 2

Round two: Ki27 (1) Me410, Yak3

Round three: A-26, Beaufighter

Round four: Ki21, Ju52 (2), Il4


1. Useful for AVG scenarios and for Jap Russ scenarios.
2. Use existing flight model from C-47

[Soulyss]

The problem with that format is it gets a little muddled when you have airframes that served with different countries (such as the P-39).  It was designed in the U.S. but saw by far the most service with the VVS in the Soviet Union, is that a US or Soviet plane in the poll?