Now that it's over

[ghostdancer]

Daddog you are right and I am just going senile and forgot it was Tour of Duty originally (I still like that name better than Squad Ops).

[ImADot]

[Slight Hijack]
Doesn't the manual calibration correct for wind drift?  You have to keep the crosshair steady over a point on the ground during calibration; if you are getting blown a little to the side, you move your stick a little to keep it steady.  Then you just put the crosshair on target and bombs in the pickle barrel.
[/Slight Hijack]

[MachNix]

[Slight Hijack]
Doesn't the manual calibration correct for wind drift?  You have to keep the crosshair steady over a point on the ground during calibration; if you are getting blown a little to the side, you move your stick a little to keep it steady.  Then you just put the crosshair on target and bombs in the pickle barrel.
[/Slight Hijack]

Manual calibration will correct for wind drift as you described but the calibration is only good if you keep on that course.  If you change course to line up a hanger -- something bombers tend to do just before they drop -- the head and cross wind components change and the calibration will be off.  How far off will depend on the height of the drop, strength of the wind, and the amount of course change after calibration.

[AKKuya]

Manual calibration is used in SEA for our events and not in the MA's.  Going offline and setting up the arena for wind altitudes and directions, fuel burn if necessary, plus the manual calibration is up to the individual pilots to practice.  Not many players have the time to go through all that in practicing for those bomber missions.

Maybe HTC can set-up a seperate arena for manual calibration with winds and fuel burn for the MA's?  This would allow for players to have great oppurtunities to practice bombing and bomber interception.

[Delirium]

Maybe HTC can set-up a seperate arena for manual calibration with winds and fuel burn for the MA's?  This would allow for players to have great oppurtunities to practice bombing and bomber interception.

I've set up manual calibration both with and without the CCIP enabled for practice in the TA. Any of the Trainers can set it up for you, just ask.

[snakeplissken]

Honest.  One of our newer members was flying last FSO.  And on squad vox he said:  "You know, in WWII icons were set at only 2K."  We just fell about the place.    I appreciate the debate on both sides.  You are passionate about your hobby.  Please don't be critical of the CM's.  As HTC puts it: "The squirrels with cameras are there for your protection."  Admins are strange people.  The builders spend hours setting up FSO.  But the Admins spend WEEKS or months researching and writing the event.  They truly dwell on the small details.  Oh, and any of you guys want an MA standard in FSO?????? Pfffftttt!  I'll just bump that ack up to 1.0 and watch the boards light up!  I didn't even get to fly but, it was fun watching you guys!  ~~~ Snake

[Krusty]

Dot, it's been established that 6K icons generally represents what human eyes can see then (and now) while flying around with 20/20 vision. So by FSO chopping that down to 3.0 it's already arbitrarily shorter just for difficulty's sake. Putting icons at 6k would not change the battles as much as level the playing field, let people SEE the enemy and then decide how to react.


Ghost:

Just some players don't realize that at times I and other CMs will go no, after discussing with them and doing research that we believe show this is a local issue or an issue that only affected a small minority of players.

Is that directed at me, or the other posts that popped up after I posted?

Wind is one thing. I'm specifically talking about WIND AT GROUND LEVEL. It affects the entire arena. It's not a minority. I've on more than one occasion seen entire flights wipe out when landing, taxiing, taking off.

Need I link you to the mass CV crash video I put up on YouTube a while back?

Wind at ground level, JUST at ground level, should never ever be turned on. You want to have it on at other alts, getting worse as you go up that's something I can agree with.

But ground level = wrong, and always has been.

[Squire]

We know your talking about wind at ground level. I gathered that from your post. You have your opinion and thats fine. You have the right to express your criticism and I think you have covered it. Its not shared by me and its not shared by other posters on this thread. In the three frames of the event in question you were the only player to make any comment on it on channel, or make any post to the BBS complaining about it.

I saw no evidence during the frames or in the logs that there was any problem with it. The setup CM also saw no problems with it.  You keep talking about some other SEA event that happened in the past, with no details as to what the settings were and somehow tying them in with the last FSO. Apples and oranges. In any case my points re the setting have been made in my 1st reply and I wont repeat them. You did not reply at all to my 1st post and if you dont want to converse with me about it thats your perogative too.

Regards.

[Krusty]

That's a fairly false assumption. Most people DON'T post on this forum. Most FSOs you don't even get positive comments let alone people griping. Why? Because they don't visit the forums, or they don't think you listen/care (which, apparently NOT).

That doesn't negate the effect IN-GAME. Logs don't show when wind makes a plane rip a wingtip off after a perfectly safe landing, or when you swap ends, or shear your gear off.

You can't tell this from the logs.

I know for a fact it's a very real issue, as do the USMC/71 Sqn. You know what? They don't post about it. Maybe they feel nobody will respond other than to call them a crybaby (which Ghost pretty much did to me earlier in this post, and you are doing now). Maybe they just don't post about it because they're too busy. They only have time to log in, gripe on range about wind settings (which, FYI, also not visible in logs) then log back in next week.

Your post-facto justification is an attempt to marginalize my opinion just because you don't agree with me.

Well, gee, I don't see anybody chiming in that the LCG is bad for FSO, but it's disabled. Some things are self evident. Some things you can get away with until folks VOICE an opinion (like I am doing, as you note). That doesn't mean they are alone and it doesn't mean that you're right because you never noticed until now.


P.S. I've raised this issue many times and said many times something to the effect of "whoever set ground wind ought never set up another FSO" for years. It's been an issue for a long long time. You don't use it every setup, naturally, but every time it is used, it doesn't work right.

[Squire]

Be as accusatory as you like. I dont agree with your opinion on the wind at 5 mph at ground level as stated and detailed in your posts.

Regards.

[ghostdancer]

Krusty I already made a request that you post relevant threads and material in regards to the wind discussion.

Please post the relevant threads where others have complained about this before and provide screen shots of how wind have screwed other events as you claim so a logical discussion can occur of whether it is indeed a widespread problem or not. Right now from the responses in this thread from other players you are in the minority.

Post a link to the threads, the screen shots, the videos, etc. and cite the FSO it happened in please.

As I cited in THIS thread you are in the minority of people complaining about wind in THIS thread. Your argument that the vast silent majority agree with you is unprovable. Just as it is unprovable the the vast silent majority do not have an issue with wind. CMs can only make judgements and evaluations based on actually feedback provided not on supposition.

Currently the CMs receive feedback on the forums, PMs, in game communication, and by email. The squad contacts for every squad do indeed PM and email us with feedback (quite pointed at times) when things do screw or are not to their or their squads liking. On the issue of wind at take off in THIS thread you are in the minority. In regards to feedback sent to the CMs over this issue via PM or email from various squads command staff we haven't received any.

So you claim the SILENT majority back you. However, they might not. The SILENT majority might not agree with you. There is no way to determine who they think outside of posting on the forums, PMs, emails, and their squad contacts relaying feedback from their squad to the designer.

Did I call you a cry baby? No I did not. Please don't try to justify your position by claiming that I denigrated you.

What I did say was many players give us feedback based on their experience. Their experience is valid but many times it is not the experience of the majority. It is the job of the CMs involved to figure out if it was a localized issue or actually an event wide issue.

This is again why I asked that you post links to the relevant threads, screen shots, videos, etc. and delineate from which FSOs these happened during.

[ghostdancer]

Currently for 2010 there has only been ground level wind (5mph) for the 11/10 FSO and the 2/10 FSO. So for 2010 it has only been used 2 out of 12 times.

Outside of that you also had winds used in the 1/10, 4/10, 5/10 and 6/10 FSO at various alts but not at ground level (although I am double checking on Operation Panzerfaust, Breaking Gustav 1944 and Rangoon Sunrise because its write up just says "Wind speed will vary with altitude and frame.  See Objectives").

I am checking 2009 and earlier write up current to see what their wind settings were.

[ROC]

From the scenario point of view, wind is not set at ground level when one condition is met.  LVTs spawning from fleets.

The wind moves the LVTs just enough so that they don't start.  Wind isn't always used down at ground level, but Krusty mentioned Scenarios not using it and I wanted to make absolutely sure you all understand why it was not used down low.  I don't recall ever disabling wind at the ground specifically due to the planes not taking off and landing correctly.  It was deliberately set higher than "mild" during Coral Sea to require turning the fleet into the wind to launch and recover planes.  Wind strength does come up in design and we have said not too high, planes can't land, but again, I don't recall ever saying "Off" because a few planes can't land.

Cross winds happen.  There is a difference between a problem and an inconvenience.   If a setting takes out a large amount of people, that is a problem.  If a few have a problem, that's an inconvenience.  Some people have a problem landing on a moving Carrier without any wind at all, most people don't.  Do we not use Carriers because it's inconvenient for a few?  No, that would just be ridiculous.  Don't expect a design to change so that a few people are not inconvenienced.  That sets a precedent that is unachievable.  Events designed so that No One is inconvenienced is an impossible goal to strive for.  Comments are considered, but the suggestions are not always adopted. 

[jededii]

The 5 mph wind at deck level wasnt an issue for us. But if it had been its a simple thing to correct. Turn the CV into the wind take-off problem solved. On rtb have someone turn CV into the wind problem solved

[akbmzawy]

Enable Auto Pilot for takeoff. NP.