If you could perform a genocide of one airplane

[caldera]

I would get rid of all the Spit Is.  Man those things are everywhere.  And they always use the "I fly it for its history" excuse.
Don't they know that the Spit XVI won the Battle of Britain.  Jeez.   










 

[B3YT]

replace the Spit XVI with the spit IX LFe

[Changeup]

Really?  Someone should have told the Bishops that last night at A27.  They kept on bringing Brewsters at high altitude to pick the furball off A27 and each time the Brewsters died a fiery death without killing anyone.  The impact of a Brewster in a furball is highly exaggerated to the point of being ridiculous.

ack-ack

On the deck it can handle anything in the right hands.....and those hands are anyone that is 6 months ingame or longer.  Take a poll...to argue that point is bordering on deef.  I haven't flown it to compression yet, hangs on its prop like a zeke and turns better than a zeke or a 16.  If you could see out of it better, you could barely stop the thing....does that sound like the kinda performance that the Allies would have sold/leased as used equipment???  OVERMODELED.

Changeup

PS - Grandfather flew 51B's 1943-45...93 years old today.  I asked him about the Brewster...he remembered, and I quote, "That little ugly plane was the worst a/c development in the WW II era the way I remember it...for it to fly as you say it does makes me want to fly it and I know that cannot be right, lol"

[Slash27]

PS - Grandfather flew 51B's 1943-45...93 years old today.  I asked him about the Brewster...he remembered, and I quote, "That little ugly plane was the worst a/c development in the WW II era the way I remember it...for it to fly as you say it does makes me want to fly it and I know that cannot be right, lol"

Well ours is the XLT package.

[Ack-Ack]

On the deck it can handle anything in the right hands.....and those hands are anyone that is 6 months ingame or longer.  Take a poll...to argue that point is bordering on deef.  I haven't flown it to compression yet, hangs on its prop like a zeke and turns better than a zeke or a 16.  If you could see out of it better, you could barely stop the thing....does that sound like the kinda performance that the Allies would have sold/leased as used equipment???  OVERMODELED.

Oh please, the only time anyone that isn't flying a Brewster is going to die is if they are stupid and try to turn with the Brewster.  It doesn't hang on its prop like a Zeke, it's vertical performance is just average, not even above average.  Hell, the P-38 has a far superior zoom capability and is an example of a plane that can hang on its props, not the Brewster B-239.  

Of course it's going to turn better than a Zeke or a Spitfire Mk XVI, there is nothing that says it shouldn't.  Maybe if people would actually spend some time reading about the planes and how they flew they wouldn't be so surprised by them when they encounter them in game.

This is a comment from Pappy Boyington about the early model Brewsters the USN and Marines flew.  Keep in mind that he's talking about the Brewsters the US had, not the one that is modeled in game.

But the early models, before they weighed it all down with armor-plate, radios, and other [equipment], they were pretty sweet little ships. Not real fast, but the little [aircraft] could turn and roll in a phone booth."

Notice he said "before they weighed it all down"?  That was the problem with the US Brewsters, not with the Model B-239.

Again with the complaints of it being over modeled and no one has been able to show how it is or even provide any data to back it up.  All of those that cry the Brewster is over modeled and use examples of how it is stem from those players not knowing squat about the Brewster nor how to fight one or at the least what tactics one should use against the Brewster.

It all equates down to pilot skill, not the plane being over modeled.  But player's egos will demand that they post that it's the plane that is over modeled and not that their skills are under modeled.

Changeup

PS - Grandfather flew 51B's 1943-45...93 years old today.  I asked him about the Brewster...he remembered, and I quote, "That little ugly plane was the worst a/c development in the WW II era the way I remember it...for it to fly as you say it does makes me want to fly it and I know that cannot be right, lol"

Happy birthday to your grandfather but he's probably referring to the Brewster that saw service with the US, Royal Netherlands East Indies Army Air Force and Commonwealth countries, not the Model B-239 that the Finns used.


ack-ack

[Changeup]

The "Buffalo" was the Navy flunky and the B-239 was the "export" variant to all countries that bought them.  Below is the official specs on the plane and the Finns added MORE weight with 50's instead of 30's, more ammo load and a steel plate behind the pilot.  Check the date...these were NOT some improved version....:  

http://koti.welho.com/myrjola/war/faf/brewster.html.  

I am certain Gramps remembered it right...since the weight loadout changed very little after the CV equipment was uninstalled and replaced with the items listed below.

Acquisition to Finland
Finland bought 44 Brewster B-239s in 16th, December 1939, but they were received too late to see any combat during the Winter War. Unit price was 54 000 USD plus packing and delivery costs, also 10 spare engines, 20 propellers and other spare parts were purchased for a total sales price of 3.4 million dollars (168 million Finnish Marks). To the purchasers surprise all US Navy "property" were removed at the factory from the Brewsters bought by Finland: guns, sights, instruments and carrier equipment. Initially separately purchased Aldis-optical (binocular) sights were used, but in the spring of 1941 before reflector sights (Finnish Väisäla T.h.m.40 sights which were based on Revi 3c) were installed in the Finnish Brewsters. Metric instruments were installed in Finnish Brewsters.
The Finnish B-239 "export"-models were equipped with refurbished R-1820 G-5 engines taken from DC-3 airliners.

The B-239s were designated from BW-351 to BW-394. Read more information about Brewsters to Finland at the Fighter Tactics Academy web-site.

During the war the single 0.30" machine gun was replaced with a 0.50" (12.7mm) and in 1943 all except one Finnish B-239s had four 0.50" machine guns. The wing guns had 400 rounds and fuselage guns 200 rounds each (0.30" had 600 rounds).

Pilot seat armor was installed to Finnish Brewsters (important difference for pilot safety compared to F2A-1 and dictated by the Winter War experience). There was a lot of other little fixes, changes and improvements to the B-239 that were made locally in Finland during it's career.

 Brewster B-239 specifications  
Wingspan: 10.67 m
Length: 8.03 m
Height: 3.66 m
Wing area: 19.4 m2
Empty weight: 2020 kg
Typical takeoff weight: 2415 kg (with 300kg fuel)
Engine: 950 HP Wright Cyclone R-1820-G5.
1000 HP with War Emergency Power (for 5 mins max).  
Armament: 3 x 0.50 cal + 1 x 0.30 cal.
Later 4 x 0.50 cal (12.7 mm) machine guns.  
Max speed: 480 kmph(299mph, 261Kts) at 4750 (15,500ft) meters. 428 (266mph, 231kts) kmph at sea level.  
Service ceiling: 9900 meters. Climb to 3000 meters 4 minutes 12 seconds, 5000 meters 7 minutes 10 seconds.  
Range: 1350 km with 390 kmph cruise speed (full 600 liter fuel load), flight time 3 hours 30 minutes. Max flight time over 4 hours with lower speeds.  

O V E R M O D E L E D

Maybe your next source shouldn't be wiki

Changeup

[Changeup]

A little more for you from some place other than Wiki...lol.  If you want to become more educated about it, read the rest yourself.  The F2A-3 was a BETTER variant than the B-239 and it got hammered in 1942...3 years AFTER the Finns bought the F2A-1, B-239.  Ingame, the Brewster is NOT inferior to the zeke.  Oh, one last thing Mr Researcher...England received F2A-2 (B-339E) planes for the squadrons in the Far-East, the plane was named as Buffalo by the British. Step by step the planes were destroyed in the battles and the few which survived were sent to Australia.
The Dutch East-Indian air force got B-339C and B-339D planes on Java, were they had little success, win to loss ratio was 2:1 for Brewsters. When the Japanese took over the area rest of the planes were sent to Australia. Wiki isn't right about 1/2 the time...

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/midway/mid-2.htm

Japanese Air Attack on Midway, 4 June 1942

At 0430 in the morning of 4 June 1942, while 240 miles northwest of Midway, Vice Admiral Chuichi Nagumo's four carriers began launching 108 planes to attack the U.S. base there. Unknown to the Japanese, three U.S. carriers were steaming 215 miles to the east. The two opposing fleets sent out search planes, the Americans to locate an enemy they knew was there and the Japanese as a matter of operational prudence. Seaplanes from Midway were also patrolling along the expected enemy course. One of these spotted, and reported, the Japanese carrier striking force at about 0530.

That seaplane also reported the incoming Japanese planes, and radar confirmed the approaching attack shortly thereafter. Midway launched its own planes. Navy, Marine and Army bombers headed off to attack the Japanese fleet. Midway's Marine Corps Fighting Squadron 221 (VMF-221) intercepted the enemy formation at about 0615. However, the Marines were immediately engaged by an overwhelming force of Japanese "Zero" fighters and were able to shoot down only a few of the enemy bombers, while suffering great losses themselves. This action convincingly demonstrated the inferiority of the Americans' Brewster F2A-3 "Buffalo" fighter, and the marginal capabilities of the somewhat better Grumman F4F "Wildcat", when confronted by the fast and nimble "Zero". Among the Marine losses was VMF-221's commanding officer, Major Floyd B. Parks.

O V E R M O D E L E D

[321BAR]

replace the Spit XVI with the spit IX LFe

isnt this what we already have but they just called it a 16 instead? i remember a very long conversation about this but i dont remember what was correct

[JUGgler]

D-11 will OWNS the brew   

[Changeup]

D-11 will OWNS the brew   

LMAO!!!  You are THE man in the Jug...

Changeup

[RufusLeaking]

What would it be?

We need more planes not less.  I would encourage folks to get outside their comfort rides and mix it up.
 
BTW, The plane I that gives me fits, all things being equal, is the Ki-84.

[Ack-Ack]

<snipped>

O V E R M O D E L E D

Again, if it helps players soothe their ego to claim that they thoroughly out flown by an obsolete early war plane is over modeled so be it.

If you want to learn about the Brewster in Finnish service, and how performance wise was better than the versions that saw service in the Dutch East Indies AF, Commonwealth AF's and US these are some excellent articles.  The main site also has other great articles about the Brewster that were in the other Allied air forces.  The side belongs to Daniel Ford, author and sometimes writer for magazines such as Air & Space / Smithsonian magazine.  He wrote an article about the Brewster 15 years ago and during that time he's found new information, in particular the Brewster's service with the Finns and added the info to his website.  Very interesting reading if you want to learn something, or you can keep complaining how the Brewster is overmodeled when one shoots you down.

Annals of the Brewster Buffalo

Unfortunately, I can't find the link for another site and maybe Wmaker can post it but it's a site where I think one of Wmaker's squadron mate either runs or writes for.  Anyway, the site is chalk full of information on the planes that serviced in the Finnish air force, through technical data and pilot interviews.  Lots of information on the Brewster on that site.  Like I said, no one has yet been able to show any data that proves the Finnish Brewster we have is over modeled, I wonder why that is?

ack-ack

[FelixSteiner]

the tempest.

[ink]

lol the brew is............, damn AK-AK I guess we have to agree on something, actually I think we agree on quite a bit, but you do sound condasending and harsh, diddnt like ya before, but I have come to realize we would probably get along quite well in RL, that day I bounced you twice in my hurri you never ran your mouth or whined or came to BBS complaining about the over modeled Hurri, since then I see ya in a new light.......if ya dont remember that day I am JETSOM ingame...at least I think I was that day...lol coulda been MORTIS if ya do remember....i diddnt talk smack about it.  anyways been wantin to say that to ya since then, nows a good time as any.....dont leave the game dood, I read where your thinking about it, screw that, ill be back very soon and we can go hourd hunting hell ill even fly that bomber u love so damn much...dont let them browbeat ya into leaving.   youll get withdrawels like I am going through and Ranger's offline mission's awesome as they are, just dont quite give ya the fix.......

[Pawz]

Just because one shoots you down doesn't mean it's over modeled.

ack-ack

This is true