Unperk everything in Latewar

[BiPoLaR]

Don't troll them into thinking I am blukitty now.  They already think I am both moot and fester.

[bustr]

Grizz is an Auction caller at the Nebraska Bull exchange..........cana geta 10large here ona Polarguy goin twice ona Polarguy......sold one fine 5 year old breed stock to the cat in blue with a twinkle iner his eye......

[Vudak]

I don't know why, but this stupid thread makes me really miss this game.

[Silat]

Agreed! 

Shuffler loves the electric cattle prod his rancher uses:)

[Silat]

Grizz kind of reminds me alot of VMPR.... are they one and the same?

Shuff I dont think so.. VMPR was a better picker:)

[Silat]

You remind me of CAP1.  Are you two brothers? 

In a way yes they are:)

[BiPoLaR]

Shuff I dont think so.. VMPR was a better picker:)

[Ack-Ack]

Shuff I dont think so.. VMPR was a better picker:)

And was the better pilot.

ack-ack

[sky25]

+ 1000

They're only "discussing" by deliberately misunderstanding and misstating what the other side is saying.

***

In NFL and NCAA football, it takes 10 yards to get a first down. If you made it 30 yards, the game would be terrible. All games would be 3-0 "defensive struggles" in which 9 out of 10 series would be three and outs. This is not because quarterbacks suck or receivers are whiners or running backs have no 733t skillz, it is because in a game which balances skilled offensive players against equally skilled defensive players, the rules must create an arbitrary and artificial balance by making the goal for the offense something that is reasonably achievable, but not so easy that it's impossible for the defense to prevent. Given equally skilled offensive and defensive players, it will be relatively rare for the offense to gain 30 yards in 3 plays consistently enough to move the ball downfield and score touchdowns.

Likewise, given equally skilled offensive and defensive players, it would be so easy to move 5 yards in three plays that it would happen every series and no one would ever have to punt or try a field goal, there'd be a touchdown every time.

10 yards strikes a good balance and makes for good gameplay.

What a lot of us have been saying is that the base-taking aspect of AH has gotten out of balance. It takes 30 yards to get a first down, therefore first downs are rare and no one ever scores a touchdown. This isn't because the offense sucks - after all, 90% of the people who care about base-taking and war-winning play both defense and offense in this game - it's because the arbitrary balance created by the game is out of whack. Given equally skilled play by offense and defense, the defense will usually win. It's not impossible to take bases, but it's difficult enough that no one can take enough in a short enough amount of time to win the map. There are no reasonably achievable strategic goals.

(The exception being the situation we saw earlier in SFMA, where two sides ignore each other and gang up on the third for an unusually extended period, but then of course you can't win the war that way either, as we've seen, all you can do is create an incredibly lopsided game.)

A bunch of people on thse forums read that, and somehow translate it to "I suck and haz no skillz and this game is 2 hard." Which is not remotely what is being said.

I think the root of the problem here is what grizz has identified: some of the "furballers" here don't care about that balance and don't even recognize its existence or the validity of the concept, because they despise the entire base taking/strategic aspect of the game. What they wan't isn't for base taking to be appropriately difficult, it's for base taking to be infinitely difficult, so that no one bothers with it and everyone plays the way they want, which is to mindlessly furball with no strategic goal in mind. Why should anyone ever want to end a perfectly good fight by taking the base?

That is, of course, not what HTC are trying to achieve - they are trying to make it appropriately difficult and strike a proper balance. The criticism is that they are in error and what we have now isn't a proper balance, it's an endless 3-0 "defensive struggle" (complete with massive hordes since that's the only remaining practical way to take defended bases). Their changes have not produced the results they intended.

And what unperked 262s have to do with any of this, I can't imagine. It's just something deliberately stupid that has been tossed out to derail the discussion. Guppy is trying to make the people he disagrees with look ridiculous and stupid, by saying something he knows is ridiculous and stupid and pretending it's what they're saying when it is perfectly obvious that it isn't.

Loki, Could you turn this into a NASCAR analogy so that I can understand it?

Well Said!

[grizz441]

And was the better pilot.

ack-ack

Then the transitive property of mathematics does not speak well of many players in this game.   

[BillyD]

Then the transitive property of mathematics does not speak well of many players in this game.   

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!


<-------head explodes

[CptTrips]

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.  George Bernard Shaw

[Perrine]

in addition to OP's suggestion... how about this?

1.  Instead of perking planes, how about giving planes such as Tempest 0-ENY?  Still flyable but 0-ENY.  I think this is necessary to nudge people to fly other diverse planes and not stick to 1 uuber variant

2.  In late war arena there should be late war planes only (excluding selected bombers)

example:
- mid war arena = mid war planes only (excluding some selected bombers)
- early war arena = early war planes only (excluding some selected bombers)
- late war arena = late war planes only (excluding some selected bombers)

here's how its gonna look like


Early war: 1940-1941


USA
B-25C ... 1-41
C-47A ... 12-41
P-39D .... 10-41(ETO)
P-40B ... 1-41
P-40E ... 8-41
F4F-4 ... 9-41(ETO)
SBD
***US needs navy torpedo bomber such as TBD Devastator for this time frame***


Britain
Boston MK III ... 5-41
Hurricane Mk I ... 5-40
Hurricane IIC ... 4-41
Spitfire Mk IA ... 8-40
Spitfire V ... 4-41


Finland
B-239 Brewster ... 3-40


Soviet
I-16... 1-40
***USSR sorely needs the followingfor this time frame***
Fighters:  Yak-1, LaGG-3, MiG-3
Bombers:  IL-4


Italy
C.202 ... 11-41
***Italy sorely needs at least a bomber, and Fiat and Reggiane fighters***


Japan
A6M2 ... 7-40
B5N2  ... 7-40
D3A-1 ... 7-40
G4M1 (new model, coming soon)
***Japan sorely needs the following for this time frame***
Navy Bomber:  G3M  
Army Fighters:  Ki-43-I,  Ki-45
Army Bombers:  Ki-21


Germany
Bf 109E-4 ... 5-40
Bf 109F-4 ... 6-41
Bf 110C-4b ... 8-40
Ju 88A-4 ... 5-41
Ju 87B
Ju-87D
***Germany sorely needs Dornier and Heinkel bombers***


Mid war: 1942-1943


USA
A-20G ... 5-42
B-17G ... 6-43
B-25C ... 1-41
B-24J ... 5-43
B-26B ... 5-42
C-47A ... 12-41
P-38G ... 11-42
P-39D .... 10-41(ETO), 4-42(PTO), 5-42(EF)
P-39Q ... 10-43 (PTO) 11-43 (EF) 1-44 (MTO)
P-40E ... 8-41
P-47D-11 ... 3-43(D5)
F4F-4 ... 9-41(ETO),5-42(PTO)
F6F-3
F4U-1 ... 2-43(ETO)
F4U-1A ... 7-43(PTO)
SBD-5 ... 5-43
TBM-3 ... 2-43
***US needs P-40L and N army fighters for this time frame***


Britain
Boston MK III ... 5-41
Hurricane IIC ... 4-41
Hurricane IID ... 6-42
Lancaster III ... 3-42
Mosquito Mk VI ... 7-43(ETO),11-43(PTO&CBI)
Seafire IIC ... 10-42,11-43(ETO)
Spitfire V ... 4-41
Spitfire VIII ... 7-43
Spitfire Mk IX ... 7-42
***Britain needs Hurricane Mk IV and Spitfire Mk XII for this time frame***


Soviet
Il-2 Type 3 ... 10-42
La-5FN ... 3-43
Yak-9T ... 1-43
***USSR sorely needs the following for this time frame***
Fighters:  Yak-1, Yak-7, Yak-9D, LaGG-3, La-5, MiG-3
Bombers:  Pe-2, Tu-2


Italy
C.202 ... 11-41
C.205 ... 1-43
***Italy sorely needs at least a bomber, and Fiat and Reggiane fighters***


Japan
A6M5b ... 8-43
B5N2  ... 7-40
D3A-1 ... 7-40
G4M1 (new model, coming soon)
Ki-61 ... 6-43
***Japan sorely needs the following for this time frame***
Navy Fighters:  A6M3 model 22, A6M3 model 32
Navy Bombers:  D3A2
Army Fighters:  Ki-43-II, Ki-44, Ki-45
Army Bombers:  Ki-49-II


Germany
Bf 109F-4 ... 6-41
Bf 109G-2 ... 6-42
Bf 109G-6 ... 2-43
Bf 110G-2 ... 5-42
Fw 190A-5 ... 6-43*
Ju 88A-4 ... 5-41
Ju-87D
Ju-87G
***Germany sorely needs Dornier, Heinkel, more Junkers bombers/variants, Henschell HS-219***


Late war: 1944-1945



USA
A-20G ... 5-42
B-17G ... 6-43
B-25C ... 1-41
B-25H ... 9-44
B-24J ... 5-43
B-26B ... 5-42
B-29
C-47A ... 12-41
P-38J ... 12-43(ETO) 2-44(PTO)
P-38L ... 7-44
P-39Q ... 10-43 (PTO) 11-43 (EF) 1-44 (MTO)
P-47D-11 ... 1-44(D11)
P-47D-25 ... 5-44
P-47D-40 ... 1-45(ETO)
P-47N ... 6-45
P-51B ... 12-43(ETO),8-44(CBI)
P51D ... 5-44(ETO),1-45(CBI&PTO)
FM-2 ... 6-44(ETO),10-44(PTO)
F6F-5 ... 7-44
F4U-1 ... 4-44(ETO)
F4U-1A ... 7-43(PTO),12-43(ETO)
F4U-1D ... 1-45
F4U-1C ... 4-45
F4U-4 ... 4-45
F6F-5 ... 7-44
SBD-5 ... 5-43
TBM-3 ... 2-43
***US needs P-40N army fighter and SB2C dive bomber for this time frame***


Britain
Boston MK III ... 5-41
Mosquito Mk VI ... 7-43(ETO),11-43(PTO&CBI)
Mosquito B.XVI ... 1-44(ETO)
Seafire IIC ... 10-42,11-43(ETO)
Spitfire VIII ... 7-43
Spitfire Mk XIV ... 5-44,7-45(CBI)
Spitfire Mk XVI ... 7-44
Tempest V ... 5-44
Typhoon IB
***Britain needs Hurricane Mk IV for this time frame***


Soviet
Il-2 Type 3 ... 10-42
La-5FN ... 3-43
La-7 ... 6-44
Yak-9U ... 7/8-44
***USSR sorely needs the following for this time frame***
Fighters:  Yak-3
Bombers:  Pe-2, Tu-2


Italy
C.205 ... 1-43
***Italy sorely needs at least a bomber, and Fiat and Reggiane fighters***


Japan
A6M5b ... 8-43
N1K2-J ... 1-45
G4M1 (new model, coming soon)
Ki-61 ... 6-43
Ki-84-la ... 8-44 (CBI),10-44(PTO)
Ki-67 ... 4-44
***Japan sorely needs the following for this time frame***
Navy Fighters:  J2M
Navy Bombers:  B6N, D4Y
Army Fighters:  Ki-43-III, Ki-44, Ki-45, Ki-100


Germany
Ar 234B ... 12-44
Bf 109G-6 ... 2-43
Bf 109G-14 ... 7-44
Bf 109K-4 ... 10-44
Fw 190A-5 ... 6-43*
Fw 190A-8 ... 2-44
Fw 190D-9 ... 12-44
Fw 190F-8 ... 4-44 (replaced Ju-87D in frontline service)
Ju-87G
Ju 88A-4 ... 5-41
Me 262 ... 10-44
Me 163 ... 9-44
Ta 152H ... 1-45
***Germany sorely needs Dornier, Heinkel, more Junkers bombers/variants, Henschell HS-219 and Me-410***


0-ENY planes


Early war
Hurricane IIC

Mid war
F4U-1A
P-47D-5
Mosquito bomber
Spitfire VIII
Spitfire XII
La-5FN
Bf-110G

late war
P-38L
P-47N
P-51D
F4U-1C
F4U-4
B-29
Mosquito bomber
Spitfire XVI
Spitfire XIV
Typhoon
Tempest
La-7
N1K2-J
Bf 109K
Fw-190D
Ta-152H
Me 163
Me 262
Ar 234

[LLogann]

ika ika ika, capang, rupoing, balu balu balubala

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!


<-------head explodes

[Ack-Ack]

Then the transitive property of mathematics does not speak well of many players in this game.   

My apologies if VMPR when he was playing was a better flyer, but then so was Lev, Drex and a few others. 


ack-ack