need me262

[tanij]

twin engine?

First Me110, next Me410 then Me262.
(Also British and Japanese twin engine fighters...)

[Westy MOL]

The P-80 (American Jet Fighter only hours away from being operational when the war ended)

It was operational.

""The service history of the Shooting Star begins in 1944, when the decision was made to deploy four service test YP-80As to Europe (Operation Extravirsion) to demonstrate their capabilities to combat crews and to help in the development of tactics to be used against Luftwaffe jet fighters.  44-83026 and 83027 were shipped to England in mid-December 1944, but 44 83026 crashed on its second flight in England, killing its pilot. (the tail seperated during a high speed fly by killing Major Fred Borsodi). 44-83028 and 83029 were shipped to the Mediterranean. They flew some  operational sorties, but they never encountered any enemy aircraft.  They were both returned to the USA after the war.....

 The first 17 P-80As off the line were assigned to the 31st Squadron of the 412th Fighter Group,supplementing the YP-80As that the Group had already received.  More P 80As went to the 29th and the 445th Squadrons of this group in the summer of 1945. This group was in preparation for deployment to the Pacific when Japan surrendered.   In the summer of 1945, approximately 30 P-80As were sent aboard an aircraft carrier to the Philippines in preparation for the final assault on Japan.  The planes were to be issued to the 414th Fighter Group, based at Florida Blanca.  Unfortunately, the planes had been sent without their tip tanks and their aircraft batteries, so they sat aboard the aircraft carrier for 30 days waiting for this equipment.  By the time that the batteries and wingtip tanks were delivered, the war in the Pacific had ended, so the P 80 never got a chance to enter combat in the war against Japan."    -- Baugher

 

 -Westy

[Kieran]

Just wondering why America continued to produce the "crappy P-80/F-80" and Britain the Meteor after the war...

BTW, where was the 262 being produced?  

I think it would be interesting to match the P-80 against the 262. IMHO the P-80 would hand the 262 its a**.

 

The first of three I-40 prototypes, designated XP-80A, made its first flight on June 10, 1944. Thirteen service test aircraft had been ordered and delivery of these began in October. Three of these were sent to Italy, but saw only limited operations and never faced an enemy aircraft.

The war ended before the Shooting Star reached any combat units.  

Hey, if you want a real "Rumble", wouldn't this be a blast?  

[milnko]

Originally posted by Kieran:
<SNIP> I think it would be interesting to match the P-80 against the 262. IMHO the P-80 would hand the 262 its a**. <SNIP>

I dunno... I'd hate to go H2H in a P-80 with .50cals against a Me 262A-1a Schwalbe with it's Four 30mm Mk 108 cannon, but even worst would be H2H against the Me 262A-1a/U4 Pulkzerstörer with it's One Mauser MK 214A 50mm Cannon  

Me 262A-1a Schwalbe  http://www.crosswindsims.com/stormbird/playerimages/a1a_action.jpg

Me 262A-1a/U4 Pulkzerstörer  http://www.crosswindsims.com/stormbird/playerimages/u4_action.jpg

[Seeker]

Here's something to think about:

Galland flew the Meteor extensively.

It's true! After the war, he built the Argintine airforce, and they were supplied with Meteors.

I've read an interview (sorry, can't find the link) in which he said that while the 262 was the better airframe, the Meteors engines so much much better (and serviceable) as to make it a credible threat. In balance he preferred the 262, but as to which would prove the most *servicable* plane he had an open mind.

[Westy MOL]

Kieran, the P-80 was improved greatly over the next couple of years after the war and it served very well as a good transition aircraft to the F-86 and an all jet USAF.

 As for a P-80 vs ME-262 match? It would certainly be a good fight      

ME262A-1a                      

540 MPH (at what alt?)      
(262A-1a: 540 mph)        
(262A-2a: 470 mph)
(262B-1a: 497 mph)                            
scve ceiling 40,000 ft    
range: normal range 650 Mi            
"about 4000 ft/minute"    

   P-80A

558 mph at sea level
492 mph at 40,000 ft
scve ceiling 45,000 ft
range: normal 780 mi; w/wing tanks 1440 mi
Initial climb rate was 4580 ft/min

(*note, the P-80 was lighter and smaller than the ME-262.
 Also the guns on the ME-262 were more appropriate for
 bomber killing than fighter-fighter work. Not saying that
 the ME-262 did not shoot down Allied fighters but the
 slow rof of the 30mm made it hard work at best)


 Milenko, my beloved Yak is under going inadequacy issues now that you've mentioned the 50mm ME-262      

 Westy

[ 07-19-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]

[Staga]

So four YP-80 test planes "saw" action in WW2, one of them by killing its pilot and two by cruising over Italy ?

And some ppl wants that plane to AH because it saw action ?

Sure  

[milnko]

Originally posted by Westy MOL:
Milenko, my beloved Yak is under going inadequacy issues now that you've mentioned the 50mm ME-262        Westy

No Worrys Westy, remember what they say about "cannon" size...It's not about how big your cannon is, it's how ya use it![/b]  

Ya can always tell when someone has a small "cannon", 'cuz they always say that.  

[Westy MOL]

"And some ppl wants that plane to AH because it saw action ?"

 Staga, feel free to come on in from left field at any time!  

 I never advocated it. Although it's use is on par with a DO-335. I would rather see the Meteor included when or if we ever get the ME-262. I was simply talking about the P-80 and how it's place in the final days of WWII.

 Westy


*lol Milenko. I may use that in a sig file  

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]

[Staga]

Westy in my response there actually were list of "rare-birds" which saw very limited action in war but I thought I should wait if YP-80 gets in this sim  

snip:
The XXXXXX pre-production fighters were to be powered by a pair of XXXXXX turbojets, 1962 lb. st. each. Estimated maximum speed was 590 mph at sea level and 607 mph at 39,370 feet. Maximum ceiling was to be 52,500 feet (!!! Remember, this was only 1945, folks!). Maximum range was estimated at 1180 miles, and initial climb rate was to be 4330 ft/min. Weights were estimated at 10,140 lb empty, 16,550 lbs. normal loaded.

Tip: B-2 looks like this one  

It's not P-80 but if we get that one then this one has also right to be in plane-set    

So: YP-80 to Aces High! (I'm serious btw)

[Rojo]

My vote is for the Me262 and the Meteor.  Along with the Ar234, it would really upgrade the "Battle of Britain II" Snapshot we ran last month.  I'd also love to get the B-29 as the logical bomber opponent of the 262.  

I wrote up a story line a while back, who's premise was that the clashes between Soviet and Americn/British forces in the closing months sparked all out war between these erstwhile allies, just as Germany was on the brink of complete defeat.  B-29's are shifted to the European theater to attack the Soviet Union, only to run into a Red Air Force flying captured Me262's and He162's.  Interesting...

P.S. I'd also rather see the P-40N first, though  .

[Rude]

In WB's Jet Day, the 262 was nothing more than an annoyance.

Bring it on

[funkedup]

With AH fuel multiplier, He 162 would barely have fuel for takeoff.  
Me 262 and Meteor would be great.

[Kieran]

Merely stating a hypothetical, Staga. It would be an interesting fight is all I'm saying. I think the more conventional layout of the P-80, coupled with flatter trajectory, higher ROF guns would put the 262 at a decided disadvantage. The P-80 would likely be more forgiving in the slow-speed handling department and be able to land lead on the target easier. If the numbers that Westy posted are accurate then it would seem the 262 couldn't run from a P-80, either.

[Westy MOL]

Staga, is that info for the GO-229 that never saw more than two protoptypes?  

 I'm not sure even I'd like to see a P-80. It's out of place and somehting I associate with postwar pictures or even Korea.

 I am all for production aircraft (in AH or anywhere) though. But if the door is open to prototypes and what was on the drawing board then we get into a whole new realm of air warfare Both the Axis andthe Allies had alot of good stuff brewing up that could be fun in a 'what if' "1946" arena.

 Westy