Brewster

[THRASH99]

Found some things interesting about the Brewster. Was looking up info about it, and came down to some points. As you know, the Brewster saw combat in the very early stage of the war. Most pilots as you know called it the "flying coffin". About 44 produced of the B-239 version and most of them were shot down, about 3 still around and very rare to see. It had a 940 hp engine and climbed 2750 feet per minute, which in AH is a bit overmodeled, it's set to 2950. Basically has the same engine power to the A6M. But, I've seen people while flying in the Dueling Arena, out match a zero just by turning and they keep holding it and holding it up in the vertical when the thing in real life didn't even have the power-weight ratio to even do that.  

   Quote from Brewster pilot:

Second Lt. Charles M. Kunz reported that after successfully downing two Val bombers, he was attacked by Japanese fighters:

"I was at an altitude of about 9,000 ft., and shoved over in a dive trying to shake the plane on my tail until I was about 20 feet from the water. I was making radical turns hoping the pilot couldn't get steadied on me. I glanced out of the rear and saw that it was a [Mitsubishi A6M Zero] fighter. I continued flying on a rapid turning course at full throttle when I was hit in the head by a glancing bullet. After he fired a few short burst he left as I had been in a general direction of 205 degrees heading away from the island. My plane was badly shot up...In my opinion the [Zero] fighter has been far underestimated. I think it is probably one of the finest fighters in the present war. As for the F2A-3, (or Brewster trainer) it should be in Miami as a training plane, rather than used as a first line fighter."

Notice he states that the A6M was a better plane than the Brewster, yet in AH it's out matched by the Brewster, even if an experienced person is in the zeke, they should be literally exactly the same matched. Now I've shot at the Brewster and use 20mm and 50 cals on it, and it sometimes doesn't even do anything from 400 out, even when your slamming it all over the place (not to mention the thing was really weak), then the Brewster does something fancy, gets on your tail, and puts some few 50 cal rounds into you and does some huge damage.

Also noticed this: "With only a single-stage supercharger, high-altitude performance fell off rapidly." Yet in AH, high alt performance is outstanding for some reason.

Couple more quotes:  Karhunen, the captain and commander of the 3rd flight of LeLv 24, recalled:

"The Brewster model 239 was good against the older Russian fighters, Polikarpov I-153 Chaika (Gull) and I-16. Hence the period 1941–42 was the best time for us. In 1943 it was already significantly more difficult when the Russians began to use their newer fighters against us... Later, with the Yaks, Hurricanes, Tomahawks, LaGG-3 and MiGs, it became a fight to the death."

"In Finnish Air Force service, the B-239s were regarded as being very easy to fly, a "gentleman's plane". The Buffalo was also popular within the FAF because of their relatively long range and flight endurance, and also because of their low-trouble maintenance record. This was in part due to the efforts of the Finnish engine mechanics, who solved a problem that plagued the Wright Cyclone engine simply by inverting one of the piston rings in each cylinder. This had a positive effect on engine reliability. The cooler weather of Finland was also a plus for the engine. In the end, the Brewster Buffalo gained a reputation in Finnish Air Force service as one of their more successful fighter aircraft."

Now, in addition to all that I put down, and I hope it was enough for those of you who want a lot of info, I'm not complaining about the Brewster or calling it a dweeb or noob plane, even though that's all I see flying all the time in AH. I just think in my opinion that it needs to be heavily looked at a bit more. With all the claims and quotes, it seems to me that the Brewster wasn't the most dominate fighter in the early stage of the war. If you want to see more info about the Brewster, here's the website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_F2A_Buffalo  

[321BAR]

wikipedia

[jimson]

The Brewster we have in AH certainly isn't in the same category as the Buffalo that fought during Midway

I remember one pilot account that read something like "Any pilot sent into combat in one should be considered lost before take off."

I don't know if our Brewster is over modeled or not, but if this one is an accurate representative of the one the Finns used, we should have done to ours what they did to theirs and never traded it in for the F4F.

[321BAR]

dont underestimate the F4F/FM2 though. alot of people do and realize their fault too late. F4F/FM2 can keep up with the brewster and carry ord. its a little and dangerous gun platform like the brewster.

[skorpion]

for all we know you could have written it...

[Simaril]

Lets compare apples to apples. The Navy flew the B-339, while the export version was the B-239.

Though I'd have to defer to the Finns for the hard details, I recall that the operational B339 was lightened. And if your implication is that the Buff is modeled wrong, well, you're barking up the wrong tree.

[Muzzy]

I think the whole controversy is largely that this version of the Brew is better than we expected.  Even so, it's not so much of a threat as an annoyance. Just about anything will out-run it, and it's hitting power isn't that great.  Yes it can kill you, but it can also be neutralized pretty easily.

[Wmaker]

Most pilots as you know called it the "flying coffin".

Can you name one? It certainly is news to me that the Brewster that's in the game was called "a flying coffin" by most of it's pilots. That would be quite a few Finnish pilots and would have to have a long list of gentlemen who scored kills in it. Just because the Brewster in general is called a flying coffin in one Flight Journal magazine doesn't mean that it was called that by most of it's pilots. The Flight Journal's suggestion that Brewster was possible the worst fighter of the war is down right absurd.

About 44 produced of the B-239 version and most of them were shot down, about 3 still around and very rare to see.

You are incorrect in saying that most of them were shot down. 21 of them were indeed destroyed due to enemy action (16 in aireal combat, 5 by AAA. Also, couple were lost on ground due to enemy action.) and there's only one original remaining in the world. What you conviniently left out is that B239s scored 478 aireal victories which means that the Brewster posesses one of the highest exchange ratios (if not the highest) that a single fighter type has in the history of military aviation.

It had a 940 hp engine and climbed 2750 feet per minute, which in AH is a bit overmodeled, it's set to 2950.

Before calling things overmodelled, I suggest you do some actual proper research and in game testing. First of all, Brewster that's in the game had an output of 1000hp, not 940hp.
  

Now, in addition to all that I put down, and I hope it was enough for those of you who want a lot of info,

In terms of showing some relevant info regarding the performance of the B239, you posted practically nothing.

Second Lt. Charles M. Kunz reported that after successfully downing two Val bombers, he was attacked by Japanese fighters:

"I was at an altitude of about 9,000 ft., and shoved over in a dive trying to shake the plane on my tail until I was about 20 feet from the water. I was making radical turns hoping the pilot couldn't get steadied on me. I glanced out of the rear and saw that it was a [Mitsubishi A6M Zero] fighter. I continued flying on a rapid turning course at full throttle when I was hit in the head by a glancing bullet. After he fired a few short burst he left as I had been in a general direction of 205 degrees heading away from the island. My plane was badly shot up...In my opinion the [Zero] fighter has been far underestimated. I think it is probably one of the finest fighters in the present war. As for the F2A-3, (or Brewster trainer) it should be in Miami as a training plane, rather than used as a first line fighter."

First of all, an anecdote like this doesn't really tell anything quantifyable about relative performance of these planes. Second, the Brewster variant here is radically different from the one we have in the game.

[JOACH1M]

Maker speaks!!!!

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

say hello to one of the reasons it took 9 years to get the brew added. 

[R 105]

 I believe the ME-109 is the top killer of any plane produced in the history of aviation. Just four German aces can add up to over a thousand kills. I saw the total number of kills scored in the 109 but don't recall what it was and I am too lazy to look it up. Didn't mean to hijack the Brewster discussion sorry.

1. Hartmann   352
2. Barkhorn    301
3. Rall           275
4. Kittel         276

Total            1195

[ACE]

I believe the ME-109 is the top killer of any plane produced in the history of aviation. Just four German aces can add up to over a thousand kills. I saw the total number of kills scored in the 109 but don't recall what it was and I am too lazy to look it up. Didn't mean to hijack the Brewster discussion sorry.

1. Hartmann   352
2. Barkhorn    301
3. Rall           275
4. Kittel         276

Total            1195

How many did Krupnski have?

[AWwrgwy]

I believe the ME-109 is the top killer of any plane produced in the history of aviation. Just four German aces can add up to over a thousand kills. I saw the total number of kills scored in the 109 but don't recall what it was and I am too lazy to look it up. Didn't mean to hijack the Brewster discussion sorry.

1. Hartmann   352
2. Barkhorn    301
3. Rall           275
4. Kittel         276

Total            1195

What you conviniently left out is that B239s scored 478 aireal victories which means that the Brewster posesses one of the highest exchange ratios (if not the highest) that a single fighter type has in the history of military aviation.

That would be kills versus deaths to you.  Not total kills overall.

How many did Krupnski have?

Did you mean: Krupinski ?

Is your google broken?


wrongway

[mipoikel]

Krupinski: 197

Good site to read: http://www.luftwaffe.cz/

[THRASH99]

It certainly is news to me that the Brewster that's in the game was called "a flying coffin" by most of it's pilots. The Flight Journal's suggestion that Brewster was possible the worst fighter of the war is down right absurd



Before calling things overmodelled, I suggest you do some actual proper research and in game testing. First of all, Brewster that's in the game had an output of 1000hp, not 940hp.
  

In terms of showing some relevant info regarding the performance of the B239, you posted practically nothing.

That must be why in "EACH" variant of the F2A-Brewster, its pilots called it a flying coffin, other varinats took very heavy losses, why do you think we got rid of it and switched to the F4F? Cause it was killing our pilots as well.

Even if it does have a 1000hp engine, where does it get that power-weight ratio to even hold itself up it vertical for a long time?

Saying I showed practically nothing is kind of stupid way to say it don't you think..? Showing it's variants and telling on the website about the plane, how's that not info? Even from pilots who flew the plane, and your still not satisfied. Brewster pilots called the zero better than the brewster and said that it should be a training plane rather than used in front line. If my info not that great to you, why don't you go look some up and see what better info you can find.